Is Newcastle United a big club?
Posted on July 7th, 2009 | 59 Comments |
Is Newcastle United a ‘big club’?
It’s a question that plagues me because when I’m in discussion with rival supporters they often set me up via a logical fallacy known as ‘poisoning the well’. They will say things like: “Newcastle supporters are deluded because they think it’s still a big club. By the way, do you think it’s a big club?” Of course if I say it is a big club I’m labelled as deluded because they’ve ‘poisoned the well’ with their loaded question. Their argument wouldn’t stand up in a formal debating society but it works well enough down the pub.
If it was legal I’d simply shoot them but what I usually do, sensitive to the unflattering stereotypes, is mutter things about how being a ‘big club’ is irrelevant or how it’s a relative concept anyway. But not any more – I’m taking a stance now and sticking by it.
Some of the people who say that Newcastle isn’t a ‘big club’ claim the reason for this is because we haven’t won a trophy since 1969. Well I don’t buy the idea that a ‘big club’ is so named because of its recent additions to the trophy cabinet. Any team can have a good year and win an FA Cup or a Carling Cup but I don’t believe that makes them a ‘big club’. Trophies are in any case only one measure of on-pitch success. I would suggest that a team finishing second in the Premiership is more successful than a team who wins the FA cup yet finishes mid-table, but there are no trophies for finishing second in the Premiership. In fact, a team could have regular top 4 finishes for many seasons without ever lifting a trophy but I don’t think anyone would deny they’ve been a ‘successful’ team during that period.
But does being a successful on-pitch team make them a ‘big club’? Well I think it depends. If they’re successful on the pitch for long enough then they certainly become ‘big club’ contenders. It is easy to get caught up in the minutiae of semantics and spend hours differentiating between words like ‘big’, ‘successful’ and ‘popular’, so I’m just going to come out and state the things I think make a ‘big club’:
- They have had periods in their history when they regularly challenged for and/or won trophies, with at least one such period being recent enough to stop them dropping completely out of contention for the ‘big club’ label.
- They have a fairly large, devout fan following, possibly internationally as well as nationally.
- They have spent the greater proportion of their history in the top flight.
I would suggest that if a team matches any 2 of the above then they’re a ‘big club’. There are things that usually go hand-in-hand with the above but I see them as enablers rather than measures. I’m thinking of things like finances – in general, big clubs are relatively well-financed but this alone is not enough. Money might enable them to achieve the 3 measures I mention above but having money alone is not a valid measure in itself.
So there we have it. I declare Newcastle United a ‘big club’ and, to be fair, I don’t think anyone but wind-up merchants and bitter rival fans would deny it. That’s important actually because if ‘big’ is a subjective term then the only way to establish the truth is to ask people and see what they think and I’m of the opinion that most people would still consider Newcastle United to be a ‘big club’.
I’ll go a step further too. I think we would have to spend considerable time in the lower leagues to lose that ‘big club’ label too. For example, Leeds United is still, in my opinion, a ‘big club’ despite their recent woes. They might lose that label one day of course but not for a while yet.
The thing is though, being a ‘big club’ is often quite irrelevant. It doesn’t prevent relegation and it endows no ‘right’ to success or respect. Our club is in the mire at the moment and few Newcastle supporters would deny that. I may think that we’re a ‘big club’ but I’m certainly not deluded about our current predicament. I know our on-pitch performances have been woeful; I know we’ve had some crazy goings-on at the owner level; I know we’re now a lower league club; I know we’re a laughing stock … I’m not deluded about any of this but I still think we’re a ‘big club’.
So there.
NUFCBlog Author: Hugh de Payen
I'm a baby-boomer of the punk rock persuasion, currently exiled in Somerset for crimes committed in a previous life where locals keep trying to poison me with something called 'scrumpy'. Hates sprouts, coat-hangers, Cilla Black, ornaments, Steven Seagull movies and 50 Cent (he's not worth 10).
Hugh de Payen has written 634 articles on this blog.
All I know for certain is that Newcastle United football club are the 8th most successful club in England based on major trophies won, and are the sixth best supported club of all-time.
All the rest is mere flotsam and his errant twin jetsam…let those that wish to pick the bones out of that.
Well written article, too.