Why do you have to be a Muslim to object to Wonga?

Posted on July 15th, 2013 | 277 Comments |

Wonga and the Conservative Party.
The banality of evil.
I’ve read it many, many times now; passages of media stories about Papiss Cisse alleged objection to wearing a Newcastle United shirt with a Wonga advert on it which usually go along the lines of:

“Islam forbids the lending of money for interest, and Cisse has raised concerns with the club’s hierarchy about United’s new sponsors.”


“Cisse is a practicing Muslim and his reported objections over promoting Wonga stem from Islamic Sharia law which states that Muslims must not benefit from either lending money or receiving money from another person.”

This is usually accompanied by a disingenous or obtuse (it’s hard to tell sometimes) response by an alleged Newcastle United fan which is so common it has become another fallacious, dishonest cliche. This one along the lines of:

“He’s a hypocrite if he refuses to wear Wonga because they charge interest. He wore Virgin Money last season and they charge interest too.”

As if Virgin Money’s interest rates are the same as Wonga’s 5853% (yes, it’s gone up even higher now), as if Virgin constantly target the most desperate and vulnerable members of society in poor regions such as the North East, or Bolton, who taught we more malleable Geordies a lesson by driving Wonga’s rivals “Quick Quid” away from their club. If there was no difference between usurers such as Wonga and banks such as Virgin, the likes of Wonga and Quick Quid wouldn’t exist so that’s enough of that ridiculous and somewhat dishonest argument.

Another argument is that it’s ok because because “Wonga aren’t doing anything illegal.” Putting aside the fact usury of the kind practised by Wonga actually IS illegal in many countries, including 13 states of the United States, does this mean that anything “legal” is acceptable? Would the people who espouse this argument have said the same things about something like the Nuremburg race laws enacted in the Germany of the 1930s? Sadly, I think that they probably would.

Incidentally, if you wanted to know why these loan sharks get such an easy ride to exploit the poor in the UK, take a look at this story.

However, I have digressed wildly because the main point of this piece was supposed to be my bewilderment that it has somehow been made to seem that you have to be a Muslim who espouses Sharia law to object to being a walking billboard for such an odious and pernicious company. Why? Have we really sunk so low as a society that we see objecting to the promotion of a predatory loan shark that feeds off human misery and destitution as a peculiarly Muslim phenomenon?

Have we really become so morally vacuous?


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NUFCBlog Author: workyticket workyticket has written 1092 articles on this blog.

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277 Responses

  1. Worky: you are cherry picking facts to support your argument. I can’t think of anything good to say about Wonga but are they any worse than Northern Rock? Northern Rock did not charge usury interest rates but were run by an overambitious chairman and almost brought down the whole British banking system (banking is based on trust).

    Citing the fact that Wonga might be illegal in 13 US states is a bit meaningless as well. Some of those states are also trying to drive out family planning clinics and I probably wouldn’t agree with that.

  2. Absolutely spot-on Worky. I’ve been making the same argument ever since this story came out.

    I am of the same opinion as Papiss with no affiliation to Islam or any other religion. I wouldn’t wear a shirt with that shit logo and all it stands for on the front.

    The saddest aspect is that, in an age where footballers are often criticised for their wealth and detachment from the fans, when one comes along who has the moral backbone to take a principled stance a sizable proportion of supporters attack him.

    And of course it feeds the media’s appetite for more stupid headlines.

    The Bolton point is well made also. However I imagine that Bolton fans are probably a little more engaged with their club’s management than ours will ever be under Fat Mike.

    GS The Northern Rock point is completely spurious and is the sort of thing that clouds the argument.

    Northern Rock was just a poorly run business. I don’t think their financial probity was ever in question.

    To answer your question, Yes, they are a lot worse than Northern Rock. About 6000% worse at current a.p.r.

  3. I also fail to have seen anything from anyone that suggests a shred of evidence to any of the story. The club have said nothing, neither has Cisse, there are no quotes from the media, the PFA spokesman Bobby Barnes said “if there was a problem” implying that none had been communicated to him. Has anyone actually stopped to wait for an actual statement? There were rumours Ba wouldn’t wear a shirt with Virgin Money on. Plenty of stories written about that to. Any truth to it? Not a lick. Some of our Muslim players who reportedly had concerns have already been pictured in the kit.

    All you blog writers, and journalists keep talking about what an abhorrent company Wonga is, and how awful the business they are in. Ironic really then, that all they are actually doing is giving the company free advertising by continually rehashing this unfounded garbage.

  4. I don’t like them, but there isn’t a story here until the club or player make a statement. I would have no problem supporting his stance if he came out not wanting to wear it, but until then quit giving them free publicity.

  5. Good piece. I strongly object to Wonga and I’m not a Muslim.

    As for the 13 states that outlaw usury on that scale, could you list them. I think the previous commenter who objected will find that those 13 states are more liberal socially and few, if any, of those are moving to restrict abortion access. I’m willing to bet that argument is a straw man.

  6. Also, the point about the shit-ball red-tops making stuff up to stir up controversy is a good one.

  7. The APR nonsense is also a pointless argument, as you don’t get loans from these sorts of companies for more than a month. The only time you would pay that sort of interest is if you defaulted on your loan over a 12 month period. If you defaulted that long on your mortgage it would cost you your house.

  8. I’ve said it before, but it would not surprise me if this is a completely false story leaked by someone at Wonga to generate this sort of publicity for the company.

    When you are a legal loan shark praying on those who are desperate, I’m not sure a footballers opinion would bother you, as long as lots of people hear your name and recognise your brand.

  9. Tsubasa says:
    July 15, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    “Good piece. I strongly object to Wonga and I’m not a Muslim.

    As for the 13 states that outlaw usury on that scale, could you list them.”

    Cheers, Tsubasa. Here they are:

    Massachusetts (not strictly illegal but highly regulated[6])
    New Hampshire
    New Jersey
    New York[7]
    North Carolina
    West Virginia


  10. Stewpot: I agree with you a little bit. The bankers at Northern Rock knew what they were doing though and knew it was a game of musical chairs with other people’s money. We are talking about degrees of greed and ripping people off and Wonga are worse in that respect. Because they are worse doesn’t make Northern Rock good, so I don’t think it is a spurious point.

  11. Tsubasa: still a straw man argument? There is a Republican effort in most states to restrict family planning so I think I was on pretty firm ground in my argument. However, I did change the subject on purpose to show that just because someone else does it doesn’t necessarily mean it is right.

  12. Alex says:
    July 15, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    “The APR nonsense is also a pointless argument, as you don’t get loans from these sorts of companies for more than a month.”

    Alex, you’re just parroting that from the “OpenWonga” propaganda site, and I didn’t even mention the real killer with Wonga loans, the “rollover.”

  13. Worky, Haven’t even heard of a Wonga propaganda site, but just cause they put it on there doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

  14. Worky, If you are so anti Wonga why bother writing an article which has no facts, or direct quotes to say he feels that way, and is just getting more people to discuss/read/think about Wonga? All you are doing is strengthening their brand awareness. Do you think that by saying how bad they are, someone who needs the cash will not use them despite not being able to get finance through more traditional institutions?

  15. Worky: I don’t disagree with your main point that we shouldn’t be associated with trash like Wonga. (I’ll try not to get off the subject too much, but it is a very difficult dilemma. I own Apple stock and yet they exploit Chinese workers, I smoked for 20 years and probably would object to owning tobacco stocks. I am sort of a hypocrite because I bought Haliburton and sold it after I thought about Cheney for a few days, but still own Apple.)

  16. Yes, still straw man.

    The nature of the loans being short term and thus avoiding the enormous apr is also meaningless. The users of these types of company are generally in economic distress and so are repeat customers. Those rates accumulate over long terms on multiple small loans, adding to the distress of the users.

  17. Worky, this is an excellent piece.

    It is beyond scandalous that loan sharks should be being promoted on the famous shirt, and I suspect the lowest ebb I can remember. What concerns me most is the apathy of many supporters who are conflating distinct issues and practices to reason that Wonga is no different to Virgin Money – even Ed on is blog said as much – in order to justify the association.

    And this tacit support for Wonga is regardless of the fact that loan sharks are to banks as mafia style protection rackets are to Co-op’s life insurance; or that Wonga deliberately target of the weak and vulnerable as the core business method; or that Wonga bleeds the local economy (in so many ways, including pressure Social Services, CAB and other agencies) where Virgin actually saved jobs and makes a net contribution to the local economy; or that the tarnishing of the club by association with such a scumbag scam is reason enough to have never considered this deal!

    Loan sharks take possession of people’s homes and cars, as too many folks don’t understand how 24 hour compounding interest (usury) starts to exponentially rack up the initial 1% per day loan amount until it spirals out of control. Still Wonga (WRONGLY AND MISLEADINGLY) persist in claiming it charges 365% pa, while still admitting it actually charges 5853% APR.

    For further reference on the Wonga easy loan myth (again using Wonga’s own figures, minus fees). This is what would happen if I borrowed £150 but failed to repay it in 18 days as per its own website example…

    In 30 days I would owe them £202.18.
    In 60 days I would owe them £272.50
    In 90 days I would owe them £367.29.
In 120 days I would owe them £495.06
    (now watch exponential compounding interest at work)
    In 180 days I would owe them £899.37
In 270 days I would owe them £2,202.23
In a year I would owe them £5,724.19

    In fact it would be MUCH more as these figures are net of fees and charges so underestimate the full compounding effect, with the real figure being nearer £9,000-00!!

    Is this really something Sir Bobby would have felt proud of, or simply another way Ashley can rub it in fans’ faces as they dutifully buy the now tarnished shirt?

    As you say, this is NOT a religious issue, but an ethical and cultural one.

  18. Plenty of states in America ban gambling in one form or another but I don’t see people calling for it to be banned from shirt sponsors.

    The club and the sponsors are quite right to not let him wear a charity sponsor on his shirt as if they do they are admitting there is a difference between Virgin’s practices and Wonga’s from a moral standpoint which they won’t want to do.

    Wonga have their own little niche in the market and I have no problem with that, perhaps if the likes of virgin made credit more accessible to lower income families then they wouldn’t have to use that route.

    Cisse IS a hypocrite btw as I’ve seen him in the casino in town more than once, something that is also again his beliefs so he seems to be picking a choosing when it suits.

    I won’t complain if he left and we replaced him with Bent as our main striker either as long as we bring another in too.

  19. It is not a straw man because I was using it to illustrate the point that just because your friend jumps off a bridge doesn’t mean you should. I wasn’t arguing against Worky’s point about Wonga, I was arguing about his example of saying 13 US states ban such companies so Britain should too.

  20. Worky, really well written as usua, a little passionate maybe, even a little ott if you dont mind me saying, the debate over wonga v NR is never really going to be stettled, it’s the world we live in mate.

    If I were Mike Ashley I would follow the old Barcelona lead and put the Sir Bobby Foundation on our shirts.
    Sadly as even Bacrelona have been corrupted, so has the rest of the EPL, would we prefer 888 or Bet Fred on our shirts ? I dont think so.

  21. Rangerman, Once again, in no piece re this has Cisse actually been directly quoted or even indirectly quoted saying he won’t wear the shirt. So chances are he isn’t a hypocrite, and this is all just a load of crap. Similar to Ba refusing to wear Virgin Money.

  22. Alex says:
    July 15, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    “Worky, If you are so anti Wonga why bother writing an article which has no facts, or direct quotes to say he feels that way”

    Alex, my piece isn’t about the veracity of that story or otherwise. It’s about the suggestion that an adherence to Sharia law is pretty much the only reason why one would refuse to promote parasites of the poor such as Wonga and Quick Quid.

  23. In a word no!, Okay all Banks and lenders have rates of interest, That’s how they continue to trade.
    The difference between Banks like Virgin for instance will only lend the money to people, Who have the means to pay them back, In the first instance.

    W***A.COM on the other hand are lending money to the most vulnerable members of society, And don’t seem to give a rats a**e, Whether people are in a position to pay it back.
    I don’t know that much about W***A.COM, And how it works, But it wouldn’t surprise me if they have a way of weighing into peoples Dole money, Or their benefits, Directly.

    When this stuff about Cisse first come out, I was of the understanding that he never mentioned religion, But his work as an ambulance driver, For the poor people in Senegal, And he didn’t want to see poor people exploited full stop, As he was from a poor background.

    I might be wrong, But i seem to remember reading something along those lines.
    It doesn’t matter which religion or whether you don’t have one, Any decent Human being should oppose Mike Ashley’s Company W***A.COM lol.

  24. They won’t lend or borrow money with interest but they won’t hesitate 2 kill in the name of religion…Hypocrites!

  25. Let me make this quite clear .I am not a fan of Wonga.com, I do not agree with their practice and do not believe that lending money in said way should be permitted in our society.

    But I am not sure that I completely agree with this rant, or at least the tone that suggests that Wonga is the cause of all the problems which our country faces today. Yes Wonga.com is not an ideal sponsor; yes they charge ridiculously inflated interest rates. But target the poor, the desperate the vulnerable? Not sure on that. Sure, there is any number of cases where people have been made unemployed and left struggling for income, barely able to cover their living expenses and with these people I have great sympathy, and their last resort should not be a loan with an over inflated interest rate.

    However there is a wider issue with society and how people allow themselves to get anywhere near a situation that they need to approach a pay day loan company. I would wager that the majority of users of pay day loans are not the desperate, or the vulnerable but the idiotic, the obscene and the frivolous. Those who require a pay day loan to pay for their 20 a day £50 a week smoking habit, £50 + sky TV package, and their £400 season ticket at St James’ park. If you can’t afford something you should be sensible enough to go without. Not stupid enough to gamble (I’ll get on to this in a moment) on next month being able to afford what you can’t now plus repayments on a loan!

    There are plenty of examples of industries that pray on the weak, two of footballs major sponsors over the years are by far of a bigger concern than pay day loans in my opinion. First alcohol; constantly allowed to advertise everywhere in football, sponsor major competitions, teams, and bombard us with TV adverts and advertising hoardings throughout the season, targeting many in the North East to whom alcohol consumption is an issue and a drain on their finances. Secondly, and most worryingly gambling. Many people who require pay day loans do so because they have bet their last £5 under orders from Ray Winston at half time who has told them that if they bet on Mike Williamson to score next they could earn £1000! How many clubs are now sponsored by this industry that blights the poor and rich alike, but mainly the poor as offering a means of increasing their earnings? The house always wins. But no one raises an eyebrow over this, bizarre the consequence of the action in many cases is being punished here.

    I do think that Papiss Cisse needs to grow up. Life is not always a bed of roses, and we all have to do things that we don’t want. Not all of us are in a position like he is where he can can afford to spit his dummy out and refuse to work because of the huge salary that he is on. It’s a shirt probably made by some very poor people who earn pennies a day. Why does he not complain about this? Is it a religious issue? Don’t think so because whatever the previous post says both companies, Virgin and Wonga, do lend money for profit, in religion there is no grey area for level of interest rates. I personally hope the club do not budge and Cisse should fulfil his contractual obligation or buy himself out of his contract. The last thing the fans want is more unrest, so Papiss, if you are doing this because you think it is for the will of the fans you are wrong, get over yourself and do your job son, fire us back up the table and bring a little relief to those of us less fortunate than you to whom the club means so much more to than it does to you.

  26. Fair enough Worky, but I think if any of us were being paid x thousands a week to wear a shirt with Wonga on we would.

    On people saying there is a difference between Virgin, NR and Wonga, there is in finance terms, but I doubt Sharia Law states “Though shalt not profit from money lending (unless the APR is under 100%)” so unless he is claiming ethical grounds the religious grounds does fall down somewhat.

    (If it does state a certain APR in Sharia Law then I retract my statement)

  27. Gotta agree with those who say there’s no real story here. It’s all lurid gossip and speculation. But to answer your question, worky-it sure seems well constructed to subtly villify Cisse, for example possibly conjuring images of him making his wife wear a burqa in the minds of those who read it (see #29 above). Maybe that’s just a coincidence. There are rumors of him leaving though…

    Anything about football, anyone?

  28. Bloody great article.

    Can’t for the life of me understand these people that come out with mind numbing responses defending wonga in any way. Why are you people wasting your time and effort defending them or comparing them to other companies. Really, why? Do you have nothing better to spend your time defending?

    Thoroughly refreshing to read some of the more philosophical and informed posts that this subject has provoked. Much more interesting than endless discussions about the minutiae of petty happenings and people moaning about how they would have done this or that differently.

  29. Exteemed, are you having a laugh? Money IS religion to some people. It’s not as if our empire has been constantly at war with Muslim and other countries on and off for the last couple of hundred years is it…. Oh hang on. Yes we have.

    Sir Jason. Erudite as ever.

  30. Really can’t say I’m surprised at your views Jason, I’ve had your number for some time. I am surprised at you making them public though.

  31. Count: an article on NUFCs current sponsors would seem to me to invite responses that compare them to past sponsors, especially if they were in a similar line of business. No? I can’t for the life of me understand how you can criticize people for making that connection.

    I agree that it is hard to defend Wonga on any level, and there really should be laws to prevent their practices. But it is the plutocratic world we live in where politicians are bought and paid for.

  32. I just see past sponsors as an irrelevance with regards to whether or not wonga are pure kents.
    Especially as this story is just a lot of guess work and sensationalised hearsay. Bullshit headlines not at all based on verified facts.

  33. Bring back “GREENALLS” lol.
    Count, That’s pretty ironic saying you have STJ’S number lol.

  34. @39: OK, the article is about Wonga being “kents” regardless of Cisse’s view or religion? But it is irrelevant that they are our sponsors? I would have thought that is the most relevant thing, that we are being sponsored by a bunch of kernts and could/should do a lot better even if it means taking a bit less money.

    That alcohol and tobacco companies also sponsor football seems very relevant to me as well.

    The topic that Worky brought up was Wonga, Cisse, Usury, Finance, religion. It was not whether Cisse will score 20 goals next season. I am therefore not at all surprised that the discussion has gone the way it has.

  35. Look, At the end of the day, Anything that is associated with Mike Ashley, And you can put the boot into it, That’s more than fine by me.
    This should be encouraged, And the fans should continually make things difficult for him, In the hope, That one day, He will f**k off for good , And take his loser mates with him!
    If i had my way, He should be pelted with raw excrement, Whenever he turns up at St James Park’, After the strokes he has pulled here!

  36. When I say this story, I don’t mean this article, I mean all the other headlines I’ve seen that have hyped this story up. You almost wonder if some of these headlines are actually paid for by wonga. Wouldn’t surprise me at all.
    I wasn’t really aiming my point at you GS. More at the less considered posts. You and I seem to be coming from a similar viewpoint.

  37. I would really enjoy reading Lord Chuckles of Chuckminster’s views on this. We don’t get along but I think he will be funny on this subject.

  38. Tunyc: off topic a bit. You know much more about this than me. But, can it really be a straw man argument if you question something directly and then use an example that is not directly related? It is a bit, but then again?

    If you say 13 US States do something, that doesn’t mean it is right. Wouldn’t that be the straw man in Worky’s argument?

  39. So, I have been dating a girl for 6 months and she doesn’t know who Stephen Hawking is. Does that make her thick? Should I dump her… I just typed in “Stephen” to google and the 1st listing was Stephen Hawking.

    I mentioned this to my mother and she said if I am banging around on NUFCBLOG.ORG on a Monday afternoon I would be lucky to have a sheep, never mind a girlfriend.

  40. GS, a “straw man” (or “Aunt Sally” argument over here) is when you take someone else’s argument then restate it in a way which might seem superficially similar, but is actually crucially different and distorted in a way which is easier to disprove than the original argument. Then, you go on to disprove the false argument rather than the original one.

  41. Worky: I do know what it is. Always have but didn’t know the name(s). I didn’t use a straw man argument.

    Anyway, I am in a good mood despite the NUFC non-happenings.

    There was an Adam Sadler marathon on TBS yesterday and I only watched 5 minutes of Little Nicky. That guy has no talent and is not funny. I wanted to stab myself in the eye with a rusty nail after only the 5 minutes. It was like reading Chuckerihno on here.

  42. I think people are missing the point!! if he put the virgin money top on he should where the wonga top the % of intrest might be different but there still make money from lending witch is the point. he can’t say its ok for one but not the other. But I would not believe a word in the mirror anyway I was told it is because he is fasting so can’t keep up with full training that’s all so I don’t think there is much to worry about

  43. Its governments that create the situations for the likes of Wonga and others to exploit.We have been heading back to Victorian and the early 20th century since dear old Maggie.These are the “Tally men” Pawn brokers and money lenders of the time.Nothing new only they are allowed to do it all a bit more openly now.Next to come Crooked landlords? Bad employers? and cr@p football club owners?Oh sorry we’ve already got one of them.

  44. GS-what you describe is, at best, another rhetorical tactic which probably has its own name. (Not that I know it.) What worky says about 13 states isn’t a straw man. To be honest, if you’re not moved by the thought in this context you could simply say it’s irrelevant. I think that’s what you really mean, especially when you point out that there are many laws on the books in many U.S. states that I can only assume most people around the world would not condone.

    It might be special pleading…the one-sided argument variant, maybe? Thing is, worky understands rhetoric, which would allow him to use it subtly enough that it’s not obvious.

    By the way, you really shouldn’t insult Chuck (or anyone really) with a comparison to Sandler…

  45. Ha! Well at least Monsanto do actual stuff, albeit fooked up and dubious.
    Wonga do precisely nothing other than leech. They are a symptom of an illness. That illness being fractional reserve banking.

  46. Tonytoon, no one is missing your point. It has been dealt with in the article and in the comments. Repeating it is pointless and just proves that you are not understanding the sentiment.

  47. tonytoon says:
    July 15, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    “I think people are missing the point!! if he put the virgin money top on he should where the wonga top the % of intrest might be different but there still make money from lending witch is the point.”

    Tony, even in Islam there is a big difference between 10% or so and almost 6000% and to pretend there isn’t is an attempt to insult people’s intelligence.

    “he can’t say its ok for one but not the other. But I would not believe a word in the mirror anyway.”

    Eh? You’re having a go at Cisse for something he might not have even said?

  48. Grumpy Old-Toon says:
    July 15, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    “I think I’d rather have Monsanto as sponsors!!”

    Grumpy, one which might sound quite innocent but is actually awful is Ever Ready batteries. Have you ever heard of Bhopal and Agent Orenge?

    Come to think of it, Monsanto had something to do with Agent Orange too.

  49. It says something about nufc when wonga is the main topic on the middle of the transfer window

  50. Toontony: it says something about NUFCBlog.org when Wonga are the main topic of a Wonga piece. As I said earlier, if Worky wanted to talk about Cisse scoring 20 goals a season he should/would have written about Cisse scoring 20 goals a season.

  51. tunyc: thanks. I sometimes get confused with the logical argument/ Aristotle stuff.

    And yes, an Adam Sandler comparison is a bit much. I was thinking about worst movies ever made and thought Sandler would have about 6 in the top 10. The problem is I have only watched about 15 minutes of most of them before becoming comatose or suicidal.

    Pooty Tang is probably the worst movie ever made if I had a vote (surprisingly not one of Sandlers).

  52. Worky, Yeah I was being ironic, I know full well what Monsanto have done.

    I doubt if there are many truly honest companies with scruples. On an evil scale of 1 to 10 Monsanto are probably 10+, Wonga about a 6?

    tonytoon, there’s nowt about Newcastle to talk about other than the management failings and I think we’ve all had our say there.

  53. Worky, sorry I missed your point, I also know about Union Carbide and the on-going disaster in the Bhopal region.

  54. GS says:
    July 15, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    “Pooty Tang is probably the worst movie ever made”

    Well with a title like that, GS, it’s hardly going to be Citizen f**king Kane.

  55. Reckon our game is on the internet tonight?
    Pardew to start his new Gate in defence.

  56. sirjasontoon says:
    July 16, 2013 at 11:56 am

    “Reckon our game is on the internet tonight?”

    SJT, I’ve had a sniff around and there doesn’t seem to be anything happening on that front.

  57. If I find a link later I will pop it on here…be great to see how all our new signings are settling in.

  58. Personally I have no need for payday loan companies but the reality is that they are meant to be short term loans not loans over x number of months / years
    The fact that they and others seem to be making money is something that’s gone on forever, my mum used to regularly borrow from the ‘pru’ – who used to pop round every week for payment – I think the whole estate probably used them
    Obviously the people who defaulted usually found their ‘loans’ had been taken over by the local heavy or as he liked to be known ‘the bailiff’ who would come in and take your TV or owt else you had then give you a kicking …. ahhhh happy days

  59. SJT – remember it well, had many a cardboard box covering the door windows – was fine, we had nowt to nick anyway

  60. What I don’t understand is how Wonga can pay money into one person’s account who has taken out a loan giving a false name and address, then clean out someone else’s account for the debt plus interest and charges when they have never taken a loan out with Wonga in their lives and are victims of fraud? Their security must be non existent.

    It’s reached epidemic proportions and Wonga are refusing to give an explanation about it.

  61. me mum used to find out when the heavy was coming round, goto pub and pick some bloke up, he’d come round thinking he was gonna have his way then the heavy would turn up, give him a kicking and take any money he had
    me mum would then say sorry and he’d better leave before he came back … god rest her soul, she was pretty sharp and paid off many a loan this way.

  62. Newbiggen Hall Estate was the place to be back in the day man, is it still as good as the old days?

  63. @Worky – sadly its true, she were an old slapper but we loved her – I could go on about how we had nowt but we had less than nowt
    Anyway suffice to say I don’t like payday loan companies and it’s quite amazing that Wonga are the best sponsor we can get…. are the toon really that low in terms of marketing for companies!

  64. stevep says:
    July 16, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    “Anyway suffice to say I don’t like payday loan companies and it’s quite amazing that Wonga are the best sponsor we can get…. are the toon really that low in terms of marketing for companies!”

    That’s another thing I don’t understand, Steve. Everyone was saying that the Virgin Money deal was worth £20 million for two years, or £10 million per season. However, the Wonga one seems to be worth less than that even with the stadium renaming thing and the Academy sponsorship. The shirt deal was £24 million plus the alleged stadium renaming and the Academy sponsorship. When a figure of £8 million per season for the job lot was put to Derek Llambias, he said that figure “wasn’t far off.”

    Do you remeber Llambias justfying the stadium name change, saying that it would bring £10 million per season, and me saying in some blogs on here that it would be more like £2 million after I did some research and spoke to a marketing person about it. :-)

    Richard Branson was also moaning that he wasn’t asked at all whether he wanted to make a better offer to renew the deal. The club just terminated the agreement a year early exercising their rights under a clause in the contract.

    Being a Virgin BB customer, Branson is worse than Hitler in my eyes but I’d still rather have him than Wonga.

  65. where’s this signing we where promised? these lot couldn’t sign a birthday card.
    pretty sure we could have rapped the bent deal up by now with his current situation!

  66. biff @ 85: it’s almost like they were just blowing smoke.

    If the signing is Bent, I’ll pass anyway. Some market genius, that would be…

  67. I wouldn’t mind him. still think he will feel he’s got a lot to prove after basically a year out.
    lets not forget he is a natural finisher, just needs to be bent and another striker. maybe try for lukaka on loan

  68. tunyc says:
    July 16, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    “If the signing is Bent, I’ll pass anyway. Some market genius, that would be…”

    What is so wrong with Bent, tunyc? He usually scores when he gets the chance. Even at Villa last season where he was frozen out, he still scored a goal every 198 minutes he was on the pitch and quite a few of his appearences were just Ameobi style cameos for the last twenty minutes or so.

  69. Pardew’s team for the Motherwell game:

    Elliot (G), Tavernier, Williamson, MBiwa (C), Dummett, Anita, Sissoko, Obertan, Vuckic, Sammy Ameobi, Gouffran

    Subs: Alnwick, Ferguson, Streete, Steven Taylor, Abeid, Amalfitano, Marveaux and Campbell.

  70. sirjasontoon says:
    July 16, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    “Wonder if JK picked it…or if it picked itself.”

    SJT, Pardew said something about picking the players who were in the best physical condition right now.

  71. For what its worth I have an inkling that the Loan Shark sponsorship deal favours the Fatman just as the Puma kit deal does. Some figures will be shown up in the accounts eventually but I’m sure that the Fatman will benefit just as much as the club !

    On a slightly tangential topic does anyone know of a single person who now owns a “W+++a” shirt ? Other sites are claiming that if you buy a new shirt with the sponsors name on it you might as well have the word “Wanka” written on it ?

    Discuss ;)

  72. worky-it’s not a coincidence that sides with Bent in them tend to struggle. He’s as petulantly demanding as Ba, only without the athleticism or finishing ability any more. If everything the team does is geared to getting him the ball, yes, he’ll score. Not enough to make you really competitive but he’ll score. Ask him to integrate into a system that makes the best use of everyone else’s talents? Nah, that’s not Darren’s game. He’s a malcontent that I wouldn’t want to make the club’s most highly-paid player either. Also we’d see the same appeasement/playing time problems with him & Cisse that we did with Ba & Cisse.

    As an aside, I don’t consider sub appearances the same way you (and many others) do. One needs to account for the fact that the sub gets to use his fresh legs & lungs against the fatigue of the other side.

  73. AndyMac (@amacdee) says:
    July 16, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    “For what its worth I have an inkling that the Loan Shark sponsorship deal favours the Fatman just as the Puma kit deal does.”

    Shirt Sponsorship + Trainingwear and Academy sponsorship + Stadium naming rights for £6million, or possibly £8 million per season.

    Llambias on the money that would be generated by the stadium renaming alone:

    “I would hope to generate between £8m-10m a year, that will give us another player.”

    For all the ordure Wonga will bring to the club and all the further damage it will do to NUFC, it wasn’t worth it at all. A good owner should be able to get that from a less controversial sponsor for the shirts alone at a club like Newcastle United. Then again, all that SD stuff at SJP is like a bad smell for potential sponsors with a bit more class.

  74. Tunyc, what you are saying does make a lot of sense, there has to be some reason why managers don’t seem to like him. As someone who was thinking he might be a good acquisition, you have sown seeds of doubt in my mind. I don’t see why we aren’t trying to get Ba back, surly that would be a good move for us?

    I’m wondering if Ashley isn’t playing his usual waiting game and hoping to snaffle some last minute bargains.

  75. My wife was in full Valkyrie mode today as we stormed out of Prezzo after waiting 45 minutes for our order to be served today. There was another lady with 3 kids who were waiting even longer despite the restaurant not being very busy. It seems that the manager was entertaining some “important” guest, and the poor chef was having to attend to his needs to the detriment of the all important customers.

    Red rag to a bull as far as my wife is concerned, service like this.

  76. 4-2 to us against Motherwell, looks like all of the squad except Jake Alnwick got a run out.

  77. Grumpy-I think Ba coming back is about as likely as Carroll, that is not likely at all. Nobody seems to leave here anymore without a bit of bad blood.

  78. Grumpy Old-Toon says:
    July 16, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    “My wife was in full Valkyrie mode today as we stormed out of Prezzo after waiting 45 minutes for our order to be served today.”

    Grumpy, sound’s like they’re copying every Pizza Express I’ve ever been in. I don’t know how they had the brass to call themselves by that name. Me and my father were literally the only diners in one of their restaurants once, yet it was so slow that we were on the verge of doing the same thing as you at one point.

  79. There’s a couple of things to point out here –

    1. The drive to prohibit pay day lending in the US began from prosecution related to the collections practices of those lenders – they were calling employers and family members, making illegal threats, misstating legal consequences for debtors, etc. While I’m sure politicians grabbed on to the outrageous interest rates to get publicity when sponsoring the legislation, state prosecution for collections had already gotten the ball rolling.

    2. It’s debatable among financial regulation academics whether usury laws actually benefit the poor, and I think most would argue that they do not. People who are willing to take out pay day loans are generally unable to obtain credit from sources that charge lower interest rates, so usury laws have the effect of precluding those most in need of money from quick access to funds.

    Before you jump on the second point – or compare this argument to Nazi ideology, oh wait, too late – note that their are alternatives to usury laws that could help the poor. For instance, subsidizing banks for lending to the poor, enhancing unemployment or disability benefits, perhaps even making short term loans to those with poor credit the responsibility of state banks.

    The reason to blame the government rather than private enterprise for lending abuses is not because ‘if it’s legal it’s ok’, but rather because the inability of many people to access traditional sources of credit represents a market failure that is better addressed by government than private enterprise. This is no endorsement of Wonga, but I do suspect that they are better than your traditional neighborhood loan shark, whose debts could not be discharged by bankruptcy.

  80. I spotted one Wonga shirt on a crowd pic last night a blue training top :lol:
    To have the club associated with that brand is a marketing disaster in my opinion,saying that I wouldn’t purchase anything that Ashley would profit off anyway.

    Such a misguided club under this regime….nothing will change though for a long time.

  81. Free Scoring Smudge says:
    July 16, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    “The reason to blame the government rather than private enterprise for lending abuses”

    FSS, I would agree with you on that point if it wasn’t for the fact that Government are now the representatives of private enterprise and the free market, which isn’t free at all when you examine it. They certainly aren’t the representatives of the people. As Milton Friedman wrote in the ironically titled “Capitalism and Freedom:”

    “Profitmaking is the essence of democracy, any government that pursues antimarket policies is being antidemocratic, no matter how much informed popular support they might enjoy. Therefore it is best to restrict governments to the job of protecting private property and enforcing contracts, and to limit political debate to minor issues.”

  82. The game yesterday evening was Wonga vs Cash Converters, or as an ex heroin addict mate of mine calls it, “Smack Converters.”

    I wonder why the smack addict’s favourite would want to sponsor a Scottish football team? :-)

  83. Worky, did you not see that BBC documentary about “Cash Converters”, I think it was called “Skint”.
    It showed some of the most vulnerable members of society, Having to hock their possessions, To survive.
    In particular there was one lad who suffered from severe depression, And he had to continually hock his sons X box.
    The lad used to get sectioned on a regular basis, Because of his suicidal thoughts, It was heartbreaking!

    It does seem that over the last few years, A new industry has opened up, Which involves peoples misery.
    Back in the day you could go to your local junk shop, And conduct this sort of business, A La Westgate road etc.
    Nowadays it does look like all areas of life are being centralized, Till eventually everything will be under one roof, ie big Supermarkets with post offices, And everything you want, Under their corporate banner, And buying our Frankenstein foods from them.

    The Totalitarian tiptoe commeth, And all dissidents will get no services!

  84. Totally agree Joe we have already walked into a digital corporate nightmare.
    Glad I am living now as the future is going to be much worse than even Huxley or Orwell could have predicted.

    Orwell “If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever”.

  85. Bertrand Russell – “Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.”

    As Karl Marx rightly pointed out though, unrestricted Capitalism will eventually eat itself like a monster chewing it’s own tail. As capital gravitates ever upwards to an ever smaller group of people, money will no longer circulate. Eventually, there will be nothing left for the richest in society to exploit from the poor.

  86. Still nothing football-related worth discussing…this shit is killing me…

    But thanks for the Russell quote. Can always stand one of those.

  87. Worky, Let us all hope that is the case, And this life style we are being forced to live, Comes to an end.
    They can stick their Social Darwinism up their a**e as well.
    I do wonder if this is why they are trying to push things on at a pace, To get people under control, Because the natural resources are running out?

    I’m not religious as such, But let us hope that the saying, “The meek will inherit the earth”, Comes to pass, And we end up with decent caring people who want to run the earth for the benefit, Of all mankind!

    Then again, Jello Biafra, Wears the T shirt with the slogan, “The Meek Will inherit Shit!” lol.

  88. Jeez – we need some football to talk about, this is getting depressing !!!

    This whole needy and desperate thing is getting a bit much, I’ve been on the dole myself before and had enough money to eat, have the odd night out etc – def not a luxury lifestyle but ultimately it’s enough to live on admittedly on the basics but fook, it’s meant to cover you until you get a job not sustain a kings/queens lifestyle, don’t really understand why people need to use Wonga / Cash Converters and the like

    If you’re on the dole, you should prob give up your sky subscription, internet, fags, prozzies etc and stop turning on the telly as soon as you get up – cut your cloth and all that malarky, done it myself and I doubt many had as rough an upbringing as myself

  89. Wonga still the Main topic even after a great pre season game last night where some of our young lads were fantastic. And what’s this about berbertof dose anyone know if there is any truth in it

  90. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    “And what’s this about berbertof dose anyone know if there is any truth in it”

    I haven’t heard that one but I doubt it very much for several reasons, tonytoon.

  91. Thought it sounded to good to be true I do know he has always liked Newcastle tho

  92. Latest news on Sky Sports, According to the little buck tooth snake, David Craig!
    Papiss Cisse will not travel with the squad to Portugal, Because he will not wear the W***A kit, And negotiations have broke off, So he stays at home.

    I wonder whether it’s a case of, We cannot get Cabaye out the door, So let’s move onto the next money spinner?

  93. Tonytoon, After a great pre season game, Get a grip, We were playing Motherwell ffs!

  94. Well I asked for football-related news…Cisse officially out of the squad, though there are no quotes to back up the supposition as to why. I have to guess such major carriers wouldn’t throw it out there for nothing though.

    This is unbelievable.

  95. Joe hawkins we can only beat the team infront of us and we played a young team and Paul dummett played great along with haris vuckic I feel these could well break into the first team this season

  96. And Joe hawkins motherwell are a good team there have just ended the season second and are now in Europe

  97. Tony-Vuckic might have broken in over the last two seasons and yes could still do so, IF he can stay healthy. But I don’t see much of a role for him in 4-4-2. And for the record, I’m also not moved enough by winning against a non-Old Firm Scottish side to overlook the horrible state of this club.

  98. Tony-Motherwell are 131 places below us in the UEFA cofficient. Atromitos, our opponents for the qualifying round of the Europa League last season are ranked 26 places higher. Not to knock them, they’re a professional side. But the performances of our half-strength squad against them really doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a warmup.

  99. I don’t know why you lot are so negative about our club mike ashley has done wonders for us and Joe kenner will be great as he has got the balls to say what he wants so will help ap out a lot because he dose not want to upset his boss I will put money on that we will be one of the best teams in 2-3 seasons time

  100. tunyc says:
    July 17, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    “Tony-Motherwell are 131 places below us in the UEFA cofficient. Atromitos, our opponents for the qualifying round of the Europa League last season are ranked 26 places higher.”

    Tunyc, Atromitos could have knocked us out at the first hurdle if they’d got a penalty as they should have done, and Tim Krul had been sent off as he should have been too.

  101. Tunyc what has that got to do with anything so if there should of got a pen it means nothing cos there didnt!!!! Are you for real iv never come across such bad supporters in my life you must do everyones head right in when you go to the matches no one wants to listen to negative coments all the time. Be positive toon toon!!!!!!

  102. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    “I don’t know why you lot are so negative about our club mike ashley has done wonders for us and Joe kenner will be great as he has got the balls to say what he wants so will help ap out a lot because he dose not want to upset his boss I will put money on that we will be one of the best teams in 2-3 seasons time”

    Well he’s got us relegated once, and almost relegated for a second time in his six years last season. The club is also more in debt that it was when he took over, he’s covered it in Sports Direct signs and next season, Wonga. These are companies that only desperate clubs want to be associated with as they are very damaging to a club’s “brand value” as they say nowadays. He has the fans at each others throats and the football is now so awful to watch, it makes some of us want to stab our own eyes out as we try to endure a whole game.

    So what are the good bits then, Tony?

    I was Mr.Optimism when Chris Hughton was in charge of the club and before the club started losing it’s identity completely so I’m not just pessimistic for the sake of it. I changed immediately though when he was sacked and we learned that Alan Pardew had been appointed as his successor.

    As for Kinnear’s working relationship with Kinnear, well Kinnear’s his boss and the first time Pardew spoke about him at any length, he tried to cynically exploit Kinnear’s unpopularity. In a foolish effort to curry favour with the fans, he tried to not so subtly stick the knife into his boss, which was a very foolish and arrogant move which will not help.

  103. tonytoon-You need an “NUFC” Keyhole T-Shirt if you want any cred round here.
    Wear it with a decent black leather jacket and take on a Fonz kind of persona and rule the world :lol:

  104. Worky we are not in more dept he paid our dept off with a intrest free loan and our club is making a profit and I see you just point out the bad things I would not expect anything else from supporters like you. Have you forgot we had some good games like the chelsea game this season and tottingham at home and that we came 5th 2 seasons ago beating chelsea and Liverpool in places in the league and beating manchester united 3-0 I bet you forgot about that season or I bet you think it was just luck was it? People like you only remember bad things and are very quick to forget the good

  105. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    “Worky we are not in more dept he paid our dept off with a intrest free loan”

    I don’t understand your point, Tony?

    It’s a loan so the club still has to pay back the debt Mike Ashley inherited when he bought the club as well as debts which have accrued since. That isn’t paying off the debt, that’s merely tranferring it.

    Now I know why Ocean Finance did so well with their debt consolidation racket for a while, quite a few people can’t seem to tell the difference between transferring a debt and paying it off.

    The club has still made an overall loss in the six years since Ashley took over. Huge Premiership TV fees apart, most of the profit has been generated by the sale if the club’s assets, or to be precise, one big lump of an asset from Gateshead. Stuff like commercial and matchday revenue hasn’t been all that.

  106. Stop trying to sound clever a intrest free loan is better than what we had it will save us millions and I see you never commented on the good things we have done in the last few seasons witch I pointed out so pipe down and look. At good things not bad

  107. Nothing will save “us” millions Tony…Mike Ashley is balls deep in your anus and you seem to be thirsty for more :lol:

  108. It’s the same when a player is transferred and people say “we got blah blah blah”.
    No you didn’t, you got sweet fook all!

  109. Tony @ 130: the word you’re looking for is “realist.” @ 132: for the 10,000th time, I’m as positive as anyone could want at the start of every match.

    @ 137: Clever? It isn’t that clever to say that if I pay off your mortgage and then you have to pay me instead of the bank, you still owe.

  110. tonytoon I object to you regarding yourself as the true supporter. When in fact its the opposite.You will accept second rate and second best.We demand better and deserve better.I will put my support of this club over the last sixty odd years against anyone.I will continue to demand better as long as I feel I’m being short changed and cheated by this mob as is my right.You are selling the club short by accepting second best and that includes a great majority of its supporters.

  111. sirjasontoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    “It’s the same when a player is transferred and people say “we got blah blah blah”.
    No you didn’t, you got sweet fook all!”

    Or a bit like when a crocked player comes back from the dead and Pardew says “it’s just like a new signing!”

    Or he says at the end of a barren transfer window “we’ve kept all our top players and them Geordies should be very thankful to Mike for that.”

  112. It’s intrest free!!! That means no intrest to pay so if I lent a tena I would only pay a tena back. And still no reply on the Good things we have done what a shock you lot still only want to put us down

  113. We don’t see AndyMac much nowadays. I’m pretty sure that Tony would be even more dismayed with his super hardline fundamentalist anti Ashleyism and anti Pardwhoism.

  114. Still nothing about the good things we have done that I pointed out your a hater and just want to see us do bad so you can say you were right

  115. Toontony you seem like a real intelligent chap, you should meet up with Kinnear. I am sure the conversations would be riveting. How can you defend wonga? I bet you have a loan and they have conned you into thinking it’s the best thing since sliced bread. I bet you rely on them when the jobseekers doesn’t come in.

  116. What good things, tony? OK, so the loan is interest free. A small improvement, sure. Otherwise, what?

    On the other side:

    -unsavory sponsors
    -club run by cronies
    -free advertising for Sports Direct
    -renaming of SJP
    -disbanding the singing section
    -alienation of multiple club legends
    -lies, lies and more lies (Andy Carroll isn’t for sale at any price, anyone?)
    -Dennis Wise
    -Joe Kinnear, twice
    -Hughton is fired with NUFC in PL midtable and replaced by fired manager from League 1.
    -constructive dismissal of KK
    -Sports Direct undercutting the club shop
    -lowballing other clubs in transfer negotiations to the point of alienating them

    I could go on…

  117. Nutmag sorry your right I hate this club I just spend almost £800 a year on a season ticket and more on away games and cup games just for fun and I don’t accept 2nd best but would you say bobby robson and Kevin keegan were bad for the club because there only managed 2nd best because I wouldn’t I would say there were the best this club has ever seen and as for Danny b I don’t like wonga I’m not talking about them and I have never signed on in my life so that crack is just pure bull lol you lot are a bunch of old men that need to cheer up and start supporting your team again

  118. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    “Still nothing about the good things we have done”

    Tony, I’ve seen one or two football people do very good things for the club, such as Hughton rescuing us from the Championship and rebuilding the scouting post Wise when he brought Graham Carr in. I’ve seen Graham Carr do good things for the club by by hunting down some good players.

    On coming fifth, that’s great. However, as I’ve pointed out on here many times already, thanks largely to Carr we had a squad which should have been challenging for Europe anyway and many managers like Pardew, such as Peter Reid, George Burley, Frank Clark, Danny Wilson, Steve Coppell and others have had similar seasons only to sink like a stone the next and vanish into obscurity. That isn’t what I want for Newcastle United, I want a manager with substance who can help to build success over a longer term.

  119. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    “I would say there were the best this club has ever seen and as for Danny b”

    Tony, we were best club in England in the Edwardian era with three league titles, an FA Cup and an elegant, flowing style which was the envy of the nation. We’ve also won one more league title, five further FA cups and a Fairs Cup between those great days and Keegan, so you can’t quite say “best this club has ever seen.”

  120. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 8:50 pm

    “At least we are still the best team in the north east”

    Well that is true, just!

    Yet we’ve still managed to create more controversy and derision than they have even though they’ve appointed Benito Mussolini as manager! :lol:

    You have to laugh or else you’d cry etc…

  121. i once had a loan with wonga but the interest charges were crippling me.

    so i drew some money out of my bank account & give myself an interest free loan.

    am saving myself a fortune.

  122. It is pretty obvious that Ashley doesn’t care about the fans he is only concerned about his commercial interests. He did try to sell the club and get out with a loss and would probably sell for break-even now.

    I think Pardew has to earn Ashley’s trust again as he must have seen what we saw – that we have talented players who were mis-managed. I think Pardew has about 10 games.

    We all want NUFC to do well, but there are different views on how this can be achieved. Toontony, questioning the loyalty of a 60 year fan like Grumpy or the writer of this blog who puts his own time and money into it seems a bit strange. You are confusing supporting NUFC and supporting Ashley and Pardew’s decisions.

    I am not quite as anti-Pardew as some. Somehow he got us a 5th place finish which seemed to me due to having a team that virtually picked itself meaning his tactical mistakes were negated slightly. We also had a fair bit of luck.

    If Pardew can step back and not confuse the players – let the players play – he has a chance to save his job. I am not sure if his ego will let him do it.

  123. Well in there were the best in the last 50 years and could only come 2nd I would like to see someone tell me that there were not good for Newcastle because there would be wrong and only on this site I could be told I’m not. A true supporter because I like my team and won’t let anyone put us down. you lot make me sick

  124. roy cropper says:
    July 17, 2013 at 9:21 pm


    you been watching the street? ya little tinka.”

    Haven’t watched it for years Roy, but I read in the Stun that Hayley’s about to be dignosed with the big C and I thought of you.

  125. Roy cropper if you done that you would save a lot of cash so you only made my point thanks bud.

  126. worky

    i’ve never missed it for years.

    there’s a bloke on that i’m sure you could play his part – he goes by the name of norris cole.


  127. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    “Well in there were the best in the last 50 years and could only come 2nd I would like to see someone tell me that there were not good for Newcastle because there would be wrong”

    Well they haven’t, Tony, and I don’t really understand the relevance? One thing I will say though, it’s wrong that Bobby Robson got a statue when fans and ex players are having to have a whip ’round for a mere plaque in honour of Joe Harvey. He gave most his life to Newcastle United, winning trophies as both a captain and a manager. We have a rather distorted idea of our own history sometimes.

  128. NUFC sacked Bobby Robson. Kevin Keegan walked out twice. There is a selective memory on their careers. Obviously, they are both NUFC legends but there was turmoil during their careers.

    Now, if someone was to have backed Robson or Keegan against the boards/Ashley would they be accused of being disloyal and make toontony sick?

  129. GS says:
    July 17, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    “NUFC sacked Bobby Robson. Kevin Keegan walked out twice. There is a selective memory on their careers.”

    GS, do you remeber when Toon fans spat at Robson after he dropped Keegan from the England team? Or when they called for the heed of Joe Harvey and the board duly obliged? Now that’s selective memory.

  130. It’s you lot that bring the club down if I was sitting with you lot before a game would be depressed and be feeling like we had lost already

  131. Like the club right now or not we should all always praise in public!!!! I bet the makems are loving this

  132. Toontony: if your argument consists of get behind the team and you lot make me sick, what is the point? Whatever is said to you, you come back with blindly support the team and a defense of the status quo.

    I don’t personally think it is negative to question Ashley’s motives, Pardew’s ability and Wonga’s ethics. These are things that should interest us as supporters of our great club. We have seen massive mistakes made in the past and really don’t want to repeat them. If you consider that being anti-NUFC I think you are not seeing the whole picture.

  133. I’ll give you an analogy. If Venkys took over NUFC and installed Steve Keen as manager we would all be supposed to get behind the team and just take it up the ars*? I am not saying we are in that state, but your argument is the same “shut up and support the team”.

  134. Gs you have a good point. I’m just a bit ps’d off right now the way everyone is unhappy with us if any of the players was to read this do you think it would inspire them to play harder or do you think it would make them think what’s the point

  135. tonytoon@149
    When did I even suggest you hated the club? When did I say I had any trouble with Bobby Robson Kevin Keegan or any other club matters of the past? My only “gripe” is with the cheap shabby way this club and its supporters are being treated.If you can’t see it I really feel sorry for you.

  136. tonytoon
    Finally if ever we did meet at a match you would be hard put to be more vocal than me in support of the team.
    The team is not the argument in fact with a couple of additions it should be top six.Good luck and believe it or not come May next year I do hope your faith is justified.

  137. Nutmeg @141 you said you object to me calling myself a true supporter I don’t need you think i am I know I am and you also said 2nd was not good so you must think there were no good simple as that. And I do see the problem but I dont think getting at our team and manager our the way to go I think a great way to get ashley to listen to us would be to protest at the game by not buying food and drink this would cost him £100,000’s a game he would soon listen then and we could still be loud and get behind our team without bringing our players down.

  138. tonytoon says:
    July 17, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    “Gs you have a good point. I’m just a bit ps’d off right now the way everyone is unhappy with us if any of the players was to read this do you think it would inspire them to play harder or do you think it would make them think what’s the point”

    Tony, you haven’t to my knowledge, but many who have had a go at their fellow fans about criticising Ashley, llambias and Pardew, saying it “isn’t getting behind the team” often try to rip certain players to shreds without understanding the irony. What is more, it is often their ignorance rather than real deficiencies and some of it is really nasty too. You’ll only find a very small fraction of that on here compared with other blogs and hardly ever, if at all from me though I can make the odd exception for Steven Taylor sometimes. :-)

    In their blind praise for Pardew, they blame the same old scapegoats. Pardew always blames everyone and everything but himself when things go wrong including the players sometimes and that hardly helps either.

  139. pete_toon says:
    July 18, 2013 at 8:02 am

    “Not sure if they are muck raking or not, but it seems the Cisse story is gaining more traction with him apparently refusing to join the preseason tour because of Wonga.”

    Pete, even if he didn’t object to wearing the shirt in the first place, he’s been well and truly backed into a corner now by several camps. All this, not to mention all the kerfuffle over the stadium naming for years and all for a very average sponsorship deal which will drag the club’s name through the mire. It’s awful.

  140. Tonytoon, Footballing Leviathan’s like Bangor City, Have been in Europe from time to time, So what does that prove?
    Scottish teams getting into Europe, They might as well offer golden tickets, Like Willie Wonka, No offence to Scottish Football fans, But it doesn’t take much up there.

    We might have scored four against a lesser side, but The Special Needs One, Who claims to be happy with his options in defence, His team let in two, And had to score four to win, An omen for things to come?

  141. worky – I’ve got to think there’s more to this than is being said. AFAIK, Tiote and Ben Arfa are also practicing Muslims.

  142. The mean figure for all 20 Premiership shirt sponsorship deals is now £7.36 million and that figure is just for shirt sponsorship only.

    Newcastle United have gone through all the stadium name stuff, and now face losing their top striker for a deal which is about the same as the average sum mentioned above for both shirt sponsorship and the stadium naming rights.

    And this is what half times will be like at St James’ Park for the next four years.

  143. You couldn’t make this shizzle up if you tried. Honestly, we’re our own worst enemy.

  144. There’s an interesting thought on nufc.com about Cisse:

    “As ever with this club though there’s a bigger picture and behind this muslim/Sharia law smokescreen lies another attempt to force Newcastle back to the table with an improved contract for Cisse – or sell him.”

    Who knows? This could be true.

  145. It’s coming to something when NUFCMAD are defending W***A.COM.
    What they on?, “Don’t forget they gave us back the name St James Park'”, The level of stupidity in some people is staggering!
    The name was never anybody’s to sell, Rename, Give back or anything else, For that matter!

    I don’t post on there, But i do read it, Their editor is taking the slash, With that article!

  146. I always find it astounding how people can be duped into almost anything.
    Islamaphobia has been on the rise, Ever since 9/11, And “C.I.A- qaeda” starting to get people to start hating Muslims, They always need a bogeyman for their so called “Foreign Policy”, As those damn commies, Are now out of the window.

    Predictably it made it’s way across the pond to Europe, And low and behold everyone is into it.
    The amount of jokes i receive through friends, Family, About Muslims is ridiculous, I just delete the whole lot of them!
    It is now open season on Islam, And even young muslims themselves are being duped into joining this phoney war.
    I despair at times, How people buy into this rubbish, You only have to look at those idiots in the E.D.L, For confirmation!

  147. Reuters also add that ‘He (Ashley) has also provided significant free advertising for it (SD) through his ownership of English Premier League football club Newcastle United’.

    As the Chief Executive of Sports Direct, Dave Forsey, eloquently puts it;

    “We are obviously very keen to look at how we can reward Mike because he’s absolutely making a massive difference to our business.”

    It would be interesting to be in the know as to exactly what value Sports Direct management put on the connection with Newcastle United, in terms of free advertising and other spin-offs.

  148. Anything -phobia or phobic is a mind op,an example is : I am not scared of faggots and don’t like them so I would be labelled HOMOPhobic which means they scare me….they don’t scare me I just don’t like them.

  149. sirjasontoon says:
    July 18, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    “Anything -phobia or phobic is a mind op,an example is : I am not scared of faggots and don’t like them so I would be labelled HOMOPhobic which means they scare me….they don’t scare me I just don’t like them.”

    SJT, never say to a Yank “I could murder a fag” as I did once, you’ll get a very funny look.

  150. You read Carroll Quigley’s books Worky?
    I have had them on pdf for about 4 years going to start them soon.
    Meant to be really good reads.

  151. sirjasontoon says:
    July 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    “You read Carroll Quigley’s books Worky?”

    I’ve heard of the name but no, I haven’t read any of his books, SJT.

    In other news, it looks like my metro blog is back up now.

  152. GS @ 166

    “Kevin Keegan walked out twice.”

    Walked out once, was consructively dismissed once. I know you know that, just reminding.

    That NUFC-MAD piece is the most absurd thing I’ve read in a while on teh webz, and that’s saying something.

  153. tunyc says:
    July 18, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    “That NUFC-MAD piece is the most absurd thing I’ve read in a while on teh webz, and that’s saying something.”

    Which one, tunyc? The one about Muslims wanting to slaughter goats on the pitch next or the one about you Mickey Mouse plastic Yanks? :-)

    That lot really are a disgrace to themselves, and not just on the xenophobia front. They’ve been sending nasty e.mails to Ed H. too, apparently.

  154. Just been on that nufc mad site and wow what a load of shite! seems like the type of site toontony would love

  155. Ed does a good job although a lot of his stories are rehashes and he does tend to toe the company line. There is really not any excuse to trash him. It is often a bit of fun to watch his contributors get their knickers in a twist. I think they may even have stopped that “first”, “second” thing.

  156. Didn’t some turkish teams slaughter animals I am sure Souness mentioned it in an interview years ago?

  157. worky-the “Evil Yanks” one. The one about muslims wasn’t absurd so much as hateful and ignorant.

    I’m irritated pretty much every time I visit .com but Ed seems like a nice guy and I can’t understand why anyone would send him nasty mail. Oh wait, he hasn’t been effusive enough in praise of WANKA.

  158. There is a poster on NUFCMAD, Who goes by the moniker, “Boxertricks”, He absolutely loves Alan Pardew, And will not have a word said against him.

  159. Another tosser who loves Mike Ashley, And goes by the moniker, “Worlassliuta”, Ashley can do no wrong in his eyes.

  160. tunyc says:
    July 18, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    “I’m irritated pretty much every time I visit .com but Ed seems like a nice guy and I can’t understand why anyone would send him nasty mail.”

    Well he’s always been a gentleman with me in our occaisional e.mail exchanges. He didn’t just say they were “nasty” he said they were “very nasty.” Judging by the blogs, not just the two above but many others I’ve read on there, that hardly surprises me. Some of the stuff they’ve written about Cisse recently reads like something out of an EDL pamphlet.

  161. Kevin Smith says:
    July 18, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    “Don’t you think all of this is blown out of proportion?”

    All what is blown out of proportion, Kevin?

  162. Cisse has only not went because he is fasting and won’t be strong enough that’s all

  163. tonytoon says:
    July 18, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    “Cisse has only not went because he is fasting and won’t be strong enough that’s all”

    When I first read that quickly I thought you wrote that he hadn’t gone because he is farting.

    This is what David Craig says. He lives in a tent outside the training ground so it must be true.

  164. Bit bored with the Cisse story, but not surprised to see it as an excuse to accuse him of attempting to use the WANKER logo as an excuse to negotiate a raise or transfer etc.
    Wasn’t long before the “he must be hungry and weak”not eating during Ramadan, question arose.
    Anyone who has been in a predominantly Islamic country during this religious period, will agree with me that the evenings, following sunset are a virtual feast, with more food available and consumed than during the rest of the year, not only that, there is entertainment of all kinds, it’s not as some may assume a period of suffering but a happy occasion.
    Yes it may be difficult for some ,manual workers to fast during the periods of sunrise and sunset, but it’s not a hard and fast requirement.
    And yes some of the other blogs are not worth reading due to the quality of the content, which seems to consist of a lot of hateful stuff from what one would hope were youngsters.
    With disguised racism and religious bias, especially on Ed’s blog, though never on his part, but he can be annoying to the extent his articles are for the most part based on little fact , each headline ending with a question mark, signifying there’s no actual truth to this but it could happen.
    His is a business.

  165. Does not seem to be effecting ba who has travelled on chelseas pre season jaunt!

  166. it’s funny how successful business men just lose the plot when it comes to running a football club – like employing a bloke like pardew as team manager.

    you then come across a couple of arse licking bulls knackers like ” Boxertricks & Worlassliuta” that think the sun shines out their rings.

    come to think of it – tonytoon – wouldn’t be out of place in their company.

  167. Roy cropper you know nothing about football you sound like a drunk that only ever watches football from the pub. I bet you have never played the game in your life you lot are a bunch of clueless geeks that do nothing but slag people off over the internet like a bunch of bitches lol

  168. Tony, I was going to suggest that everyone just calmed down and started again but you don’t exactly do yourself any favours, do you? ;-)

  169. worky @ 213: I have no idea. I gather from that article that you might have to ask the Canadians what a “Britisher” is.

    While you’re at it, see if you can get an apology for Bryan Adams’ oeuvre.

    BTW, folks, remember: don’t feed the troll!

  170. roy cropper says:
    July 18, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    “it’s funny how successful business men just lose the plot when it comes to running a football club – like employing a bloke like pardew as team manager.”

    It’s called “hubris” Roy. Some people have immense success in one field, then they think they can have success in any field using the same principles, but it doesn’t always work like that. He’s amazingly pigheaded.

  171. tunyc says:
    July 18, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    “worky @ 213: I have no idea. I gather from that article that you might have to ask the Canadians what a “Britisher” is.”

    I have heard Yanks using it, tunyc, and I can tell the difference. For a start, the first thing all Canadians make clear after they’ve introduced themselves is that they aren’t Yanks. :-)

    It’s usually the same ones who can’t pronounce words like “Leicester” properly.

  172. I think we have a bit of a problem if the Cisse situation doesn’t get resolved soon.

    We missed out on the second tier strikers with great potential like Bony, Van Wolfswinkel and PEA. Now we are looking at the second tier strikers at big clubs that they may want to offload. The problem there is that they may see us as a step down.

    Next in line is Remy, who would be good in my opinion but maybe has been spoiled by crazy QPR wages and London.

    Finally Bent who has the wage issue again. He may be what we need if we are sticking with Pardew though.

    I think, as usual, we have left ourselves in a difficult situation by not acting early and changing the club hierarchy/giving Pardew a warning when we should have been doing transfer business.

    Hopefully Carr has something up his sleeve.

  173. And didn’t Kinnear say he was going on the Portugal trip? That should be fun, especially with the Cisse situation. There’s quite a lot to work out transfer wise and Kinnear is still not in his office working the phones as he promised. I would like to be a fly on the wall for the clash of egos with Pardew.

  174. Worky @224: I think that changed then because I seem to remember Joe saying he was doing the full pre-season. Then again, the way we (dis)organize pre-season even the Director of Football wouldn’t know who we were playing until the last minute.

  175. Oh, on Remy, there is also the small matter of a rape case – so who knows if he is even a potential target any more.

    Maybe we can go with a false number nine like Barca and Spain (we have already got that and his name is Shola :) – Worky I know his goals to minutes ratio)

  176. Now Cisse’s supposed to be a gambling addict who spends all his time in Asper’s Casino allegedly, making him a Muslim hypocrite. Couldn’t see that one coming.

  177. worky I’m not a big cisse fan right now but one thing I would say is he is never in aspers maybe once or twice and not spent a great deal I now this for a fact as I have a friend that works there

  178. Tonytoon, “He is never in Aspers maybe once or twice and not spent a great deal I know this for a fact as I have friend that works there”

    So he either doesn’t go into Aspers, Or he goes in occasionally, Make your mind up.
    You are digging yourself in deeper, With each post!

  179. Joe hawkins its not the point the point is he dose not spend all his cash on gambling not that it ha anything to do with what he spends his cash on anyway you clown

  180. tonytoon says:
    July 19, 2013 at 6:47 am

    “worky I’m not a big cisse fan right now but one thing I would say is he is never in aspers maybe once or twice and not spent a great deal I now this for a fact as I have a friend that works there”

    I’m not saying that he is Tony, but there are alot of people on Twitter and elsewhere saying he is, and also in the comments of that blog I linked to above. It’s a tale that has been spreading like wildfire since he made his stand against Wonga.

    I only know that he was in Aspers sports bar once or twice for a couple of events which were raising funds for his charity as they were publicised and fairly widely known.

  181. My understanding of the practice of Fasting, is that it is carried out from dawn to dusk and then Muslims can eat as much or as little as they want. They do not starve themselves to exhaustion or weakness.

    The Cisse thing is him doing what he feels is morally correct, I don’t think we can fault him for that. Ashley and co. want him, as a star player to advertise the Toon sponsors and do not like his refusal to do so. It’s odds on imo that he will be gone pretty soon.

    I would also say it is fairly certain we will get a striker or two in but as has been pointed out we have missed out on some good-uns thanks to the dithering by management. Any “manager” worth his salt should be threatening to resign at such idiocy.

  182. Having watched Sunderland almost turn the entire side over, that plus the astute purchases by Hughton at Norwich, not to mention the amounts being spent by the top sides and the offers now being made for the likes of Rooney Suarez and others, with Moyes and Wenger willing to spend heavily, it’s such a contrast to the efforts so far from Newcasle.
    With only a retread Bent, that we are chiseling away at Villa for, a suspect rapist, a couple of Frenchmen, one who doesn’t want to come, the other who has had a falling out with his manager and is looking for a club.
    What happened to Bony, Benteke, Van Wolfswinkel and the others, even Balde.
    Is it about Joe and Al and Carr, who appear to be at each others throats, hell I believed having got rid of the footballing genius Lambeezie, things might improve, but it appears it may end up as another summer of discontent, with again no one signed.
    Or perhaps we will end up making a poor signing simply out of desperation.
    such a contrast to the winter window, where IMO we made five good signings in no time.
    One can only suspect , that Ashley again see’s no reason to splurge even though the recent windfall of tv moneys are available, which could possibly mean another struggle to avoid relegation.
    What’s up with this guy, it appears he’s learned nowt, repeating the same mistakes he made last year and further complicated things as far as management is concerned, with the three most important guys at each others throats, is this any way to run a football club. ?

  183. You know how Rangers got a transfer embargo when they went bankrupt last year? I’m beginning to wonder if we’ve had a similar embargo placed on us and I’ve just missed the news.

  184. Yes I blame Ashley for the majority of the negatives that have accursed to this club, it’s through his arrogance combined with his ignorance, not to mention his unwillingness to spend the required funds, we find ourselves to be a club who’s ambition goes no further than breaking into the top PL’s top ten.
    A club which If not ranked in the world’s top twenty, can’t be far off.
    Ignorance, combined with a certain amount of hubris is not a good combination.
    And I had thought for a moment following Llambias being dumped, that there was hope, that Ashley would finally realise now much he doesn’t know and start to hire the right people, namely a GM and hopefully a decent young manager.
    Who could both grow the business and at the same time give the fans what they have been waiting so long for, namely a good side that plays attractive football and begin to at least be in line for some silverware.n
    Instead we have more strife between two idiots and a halfway decent scout, coaches who obviously have either not been doing the job, or have been prevented by a manager with a lot of sound bites but little tactical savvy.
    Ashleyy is into year six, with little advancement made, how long does it take before he begins to think “is it me ?
    Nah ! having made increasing profits from his other business , how can he blame himself, he’s a genius, perhaps as far as the rag trade is concerned, but IMO useless as far as operating a football club.
    Time to wise up Ash, hire the right people, it ain’t brain surgery.

  185. When and if Cisse does go, we are left with the two Ameobi’s, Goufron and Campbell. Shola is being peddled around to anyone who looks remotely interested so it might be one Ameobi soon. We might end up with a striker-less team, could work though!!

  186. It’s good to have more than one striker available, but I really don’t want to see two strikers playing up front and it appears Sissoko wants to play behind the striker which IMO is fcuked up, he has the making of another Viera but am I the only one who sees that, he is not a natural goalscorer and I would prefer either Gouffran or Marveaux in that role seeing we are not in for a De Jong type who could fill that role perfectly.

  187. Nice move by Hhughton, bringing in both Wolfswinkel a Fer, who will compliment one another up front.

  188. Even the newcomers are spending heavily, guess they only get one shot at survival in the PL, which is where the money is.
    Looks like we got another billionaire owner on the scene at Fulham, how much will he spend to stay there and will he finally develope Craven Cottage I f so got to get there once more before he does, nice little intimate stadium, the equivalent of Bostons” Fenway Park” baseball ground.
    You see how easy it is to sell a London club compared to a North East one ..
    Hell there’ gotta. Be some billionaire who wants to own a football side with fifty thousand plus fans for each home game.
    Oh yes I forgot we have one and he’s actually English, what was i thinking.

  189. Grumpy-think that’s right about fasting. You see how it’s particularly tough when Ramadan falls in the summer.

    The new DOF thang seems to have paralyzed the club. Feature rather than bug, perhaps? But wait, apparently we’ll have one over the line TODAY!!1! Maybe…possibly…

    Worky-I’ve lived in several regions of the U.S. and watched more TV than anyone really should and I’ve never heard the term. I could see it happening though. We’re bad with nationalities. Most Americans seem to be unaware of the term “Pole” and don’t realize “Polack” is a slur.

  190. Chuck-speculation has Ashley holding out for about 100M more than what Fulham cost. Plus you’d have to repay the loan from him. I’m not holding my breath waiting for a buyer to save us.

  191. Chuck says:
    July 19, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    “Looks like we got another billionaire owner on the scene at Fulham, how much will he spend to stay there and will he finally develope Craven Cottage I f so got to get there once more before he does, nice little intimate stadium, the equivalent of Bostons” Fenway Park” baseball ground.”

    Chuck, the nice old picturesque bits there, ie the little Archibald Leitch designed Johnny Haynes stand and the cottage itself are listed structures of special architectural interest and will stay. The plans I saw for the revamp, with a big new stand over the river with a river walkway actually look rather nice. It will hold around 30,000 when it’s done.



  192. Looks a cool stadium on the river Worky….That new owner seems a decent bloke as well that will steadily invest and develop something decent.
    We have the cool stadia,great fans and an owner that is a fookin dead weight round the clubs neck.

    See Liverpool are meant to be sniffing around HBA…my gut feeling is a few stars will be sold,Pardew has already said his squad is a bit big anyway and I trust everything he says.

  193. tunyc says:
    July 19, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    “that’s rich, sjt”

    Nowhere near as rich as one of the previous ones SJT put on here. It was a scarf Mike Ashley was selling which had something like “St James’ Park – since 1892” on it! :-)

  194. sirjasontoon says:
    July 19, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    “Looks a cool stadium on the river Worky….That new owner seems a decent bloke as well that will steadily invest and develop something decent.”

    Perhaps, SJT, I divven’t knaa, but those plans were existing before he took over. His predecessor was as mad as a box of frogs and questionable in many ways, but you couldn’t say that he was a bad owner of Fulham.

  195. Oh the irony of being called a clown, By someone who can barely string an intelligent sentence together!
    Tonytoon, People in glass houses, And all that!

  196. joe hawkins says:
    July 19, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    “Oh the irony of being called a clown, By someone who can barely string an intelligent sentence together!
    Tonytoon, People in glass houses, And all that!”

    OK, OK. Time out kids. Let’s just all calm down here.

    Tony, Joe, Croppa, why don’t you all just take a deep breath, shake hands (so to speak), put everything behind you and start again?

  197. Worky, I’m sound, It’s Tonytoon resorting to childish insults.

    How many times have we been linked with Bafetimbi Gomis, Since Ashley has been at Newcastle?
    I swear Ashley puts these sh***y stories out himself!

  198. joe hawkins says:
    July 19, 2013 at 4:32 pm (Edit)

    “Worky, I’m sound, It’s Tonytoon resorting to childish insults.”

    Howay Joe. To be fair, he did make a perfectly valid point without any hostility towards yourself and you had a right old go at him after misreading it. It was after that he called you a “clown” so it cuts both ways. ;-)

  199. Worky, The only thing i was pulling him up on, He was saying Cisse never goes in Aspers, Then a few words later, Saying he had been in a couple of times.
    All i was saying to his was, He either goes to Aspers, Or he doesn’t, And told him to make his mind up.
    It was him who called me a clown, Although i’m not even sweating it, And i haven’t got it in for him, Or anything like that.
    I hope he continues to post on here, As i have no problem with him, I just wish he would clarify what he says, Because he seems to contradict himself, In the same sentence.

  200. I’ve just be watching a 5 news item on the City of Detroit Michigan, I knew it has been steadily declining over the years, But they have turned a City of car makers, And the birth place of great music, Into The States version of The West Bank!

  201. joe hawkins says:
    July 19, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    “I hope he continues to post on here, As i have no problem with him, I just wish he would clarify what he says, Because he seems to contradict himself, In the same sentence.”

    He didn’t though, Joe. I understood what he was trying to say. Try reading it again:

    “worky I’m not a big cisse fan right now but one thing I would say is he is never in aspers maybe once or twice and not spent a great deal I now this for a fact as I have a friend that works there”

    I’m not in Newcastle and even I know he was in Aspers once or twice as he wrote, but on those occaisions at least it was for evenings to benefit his charity, not to stick all his £40,000 wages on red.

  202. joe hawkins says:
    July 19, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    “I’ve just be watching a 5 news item on the City of Detroit Michigan, I knew it has been steadily declining over the years, But they have turned a City of car makers, And the birth place of great music, Into The States version of The West Bank!”

    Joe, Chris Hedges on the “sacrifice zones” of the United States, where he takes a look at several American “West Banks” as you put it. Hedges is one of the very best journalists in the US:

  203. Ohhh A game against Rangers :lol:
    Be almost like Ashley playing with his little train sets.
    Ashley hatred levels rising :lol:

  204. Thanks for the back up worky and Joe I will still post on here I think everyone has good banter and its good to hear other peoples opinions

  205. Joe: most American cities are near bankruptcy and Chicago has the same problems as Detroit except they are swept under the table by confining them to the South side.

    The bankruptcies are due mainly to allowing police and firemen to retire at about 45 on full pensions and promising other public employees ever higher pensions in return for limiting current pay increases. This went on for years to the point where the payouts to past employees is limiting severely the recruitment of current employees and in Illinois anyway, increasing taxes.

    So you have a massive strain on public services in areas of huge unemployment and you end up with Detroit and Chicago’s South Side.

    Of course there is a racial element as well.

    Somebody will probably contradict me on this but I have stuff to back it up if I can be bothered to find it.

  206. Back to football. Why don’t we just make a 8 million bid for Tom Ince. I don’t know if he is any good but if he is anything like his Dad he will have fire.

    At least this would show some intent and shut people like me up who are complaining about our seemingly dysfunctional club.

    I can wait a month for another striker if we solve the Cisse problem. Hell I would accept Ince and Bent as all of our business.

    In the scheme of things 13-15 million means nothing to Ashley so why doesn’t he just do it. Then if Pardew has a bad start he gets sacked, simple.

    In an ideal world Joe would ride in on his white charger and announce Worky’s mate from Swansea (also on a white charger) as our new manager. Everyone could be heroes, including Ashley.

    Oh sh*t, someone just woke me up. That was a good dream though.

  207. works

    we’ve just had hales’s results – its testicular cancer.

    its a diagnosiss not a death sentence & she remains positiive.

    fellow sufferers – my deepest sympathy is with you.

    stay lucky.

  208. I think this one might have fallen our way because Villa shot their load re-signing Benteke and have no takers for Bent.

  209. deary me!

    i dont remember posting on here last neet.

    this hot weather is really effecting me now.

    that said – it is a little cooler today.

  210. Detroit ?
    Anyone taking a train from Boston to DC can get a view of some of the worst post industrial landscapes on the east coast, frm the old Connecticut industrial towns, through Newark and Camden NJ, North Philly and Baltimore, looks as bad in places as Germany immediately following WWii.
    However they eventually rebuilt Germany, but as long as there’s not a buck in it, don’t expect any urban renewal in those areas.
    FFS I remember them tearing down half of Norfolk Va in the sixties, guess what, apart from a waterfront complex, that’s as far as they got.
    Capitalism is like English weather, sometimes ok, but mostly bad!

  211. GS says:
    July 20, 2013 at 7:41 am

    “Say what you will about the fat git (and we have all said plenty) but he does come through with some good deals.”

    GS, we’ve been fannying around chasing Gomis since the days of Keegan and Kinnear (when he was manager), and here we are five years later.

  212. No Cameras again…guess it means Pardew and JK’s new tactics will be
    Kept under lock and key until the season kicks off.

  213. roy cropper says:
    July 20, 2013 at 10:16 am

    “deary me!

    i dont remember posting on here last neet.”

    Aye Roy, something about testicular cancer. It was a load of bollocks.

  214. America is reaping the seeds of what has been sown under successive right wing presidents/governments since Roosevelt.

    They spent billions in an unnecessary arms race against non existent bogeymen all in the pursuit of corporate greed.

    The chickens are coming home to roost and I can see it (America) declining even more than Ancient Rome ever did.

    I wish in retrospect the Mayflower had sunk in the Atlantic. The non colonisation of America would make the modern world a much better place, “Probably”!!!

  215. Grumpy Old-Toon says:
    July 20, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    “America is reaping the seeds of what has been sown under successive right wing presidents/governments since Roosevelt.”

    Well I’m not a Yank, Grumpy, but there doesn’t seem to be much difference nowadays, except that the Republicans are barking mad and some of them are so stupid would have difficulties passing a Primary School test. But apart from that, to use George Galloway style terminology, they are just two cheeks of the same corporate arse and we aren’t that much different either.

  216. Worky, true, but I think we have been heavily influenced and led by the false political beliefs of post war America who virtually bankrupted us. Ironically as it happened by Roosevelt!!