Newcastle United vs Fulham extended match highlights and post match interviews

Posted on April 7th, 2013 | 196 Comments |

“Match of the Day” highlights from the game.

Post match interviews.

The Silver Supremo says Gary Lineker wouldn’t have got the goal Papiss Cisse did.

Martin Jol speaks on Fulham’s disappointment at the end of their little run of results, but thinks they deserve to finish in the top ten.

Score and goalscorers.

Newcastle United 1 (Cisse 90+3), Fulham 0.

Teams and Match details.

Newcastle United (4-4-2): Tim Krul (G), Danny Simpson, Steven Taylor, Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa, Davide Santon (Vurnon Anita 17), Sylvain Marveaux, Yohan Cabaye (C), Moussa Sissoko, Jonas Gutierrez, Papiss Cisse, Yoan Gouffran (Shola Ameobi 69).

Subs: Rob Elliot, Mike Williamson, Gael Bigirimana, Vurnon Anita, Gabriel Obertan, Adam Campbell, Shola Ameobi.

Fulham (4-4-1-1): Mark Schwarzer (G), Sascha Riether, Philippe Senderos, Brede Hangeland (C), John Arne Riise, Stanislav Manolev (Hugo Rodallega 81), Eyong Enoh (Emmanuel Frimpong 51), Giorgos Karagounis, Damien Duff, Bryan Ruiz, Dimitar Berbatov.

Subs: Neil Etheridge (G), Aaron Hughes, Kieran Richardson, Emmanuel Frimpong, Urby Emanuelson, Kerim Frei, Hugo Rodallega.

Yellow cards: Moussa Sissoko (47), Giorgos Karagounis (50), Moussa Sissoko (90+3).

Red cards: None.

Referee: Kevin Friend (Leics).

Attendance: 51,847.


NUFCBlog Author: workyticket workyticket has written 1092 articles on this blog.

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196 Responses

  1. Not great, obviously, particularly in the first half.

    But we did put them under great pressure in the last quarter of the game and showed some great skill in getting the ball over/through/around an eleven man defence.

    Also, we hit the woodwork a couple of times and had a clear penalty turned down but the team didn’t let their heads go down.

    A shame about the Wigan equaliser. Otherwise, everything else pretty much went our way.

  2. He said after the match that we’ve managed to win ten games, which is very good.

    No Alan it isn’t.

  3. Not so many long balls today. It was just 11.4% (second lowest of the season) which is highly respectable in comparison to our 20/25%+ performances against Southampton. Sunderland, West Ham, Liverpool and Everton. It wasn’t a good game by any means, but we were more patient and got our reward, albeit right at the very end.

    Having written that though, that was a fairly poor performance from Fulham today. Also, Pardew is the ONLY manager who is this inconsistent. It’s crazy. I know we won today but he still doesn’t seem to know his arse from his elbow in terms of what he is as a coach.

  4. Worth waiting to watch on a delayed tape.
    Possibly the best football i have seen from this side all season.
    A deserved win, whhich we outplayed a fair Fulham side.
    Using both pace and technique, we caught a glimpse of how good this side can be, our passing was outstanding.
    IMO we should have got at least four goals, put that down to either bad luck or poor finishing, but we deserved the three points.
    Dont know if i want to see us do it the hard way again.
    But it was obvious a major relief for everyone to finally put the ball in the net, both fans and side, not to mention Pardew, who was obviously under tremendous pressure.
    We are still not out of danger but these were three welcome points, and deserved ones, takes a bit of pressure off everyone.

  5. Agreed, Chuck. Although quite distressing to watch the many missed chances, at least we were creating a lot for a change. We must have had 20 plus shots at their goal and our passing was greatly improved. There were many instances of very quickly travelling the length of the pitch with some great link up play. Thought Jonas showed some great dribbling of old. All in all, this is the difference between what we saw today and the team that got relegated: pride and passion for the shirt, including the manager! Hope we can take it into the games on Thursday and Sunday. If we can get the results against Benfica snd Sunderland, much of my negativity created from this season’s crap may soon dissapate. HWTL!

  6. *dissipate
    Actually, running through all the players that played, I can’t think of one who had a bad game. Marveaux, Cisse, Guti, Cabaye, Sissoko, Anita…thought Simmo had an half decent game, too. Ah, maybe I’m just getting carried away with the three points and I’ll get slated when all of you wake up; but before this game, I was really feeling that we were gonna go down–now I’m positive we won’t. That’s a good feeling worthy of a Pardew fist-pump. HWTL!

  7. worky, it’s somone’s life, but i find it very hard to have any sympathy tbh.
    she turned the mining communities into wastelands, and now the living dead, because a lot of the youngsters are now drug addicts.
    absolutley ruined britain, and her pal reagan, done the same to the states.
    according to the pudgy face inbred david cameron, she saved our country, what in the same manner he is saving it now.
    f**kin’ hell!, you couldn’t make it up.

  8. Aye Joe but she was just a part of something much bigger, the corporate takeover of the world and the commodification of everything, including people.

    Did you know that originally it was going to be Keith Joseph, not Mrs T, who was to be the vanguard of the new so called “free market Conservatism?” He was the one who turned Thatcher on to Milton Friedman’s concept of “moneterism” and they set up the “Institute for Policy Studies” together. However, he made some rather controversial comments in this speech about how our human stock was threatened through overbreeding by single parents in the lower classes. Those words did for him as a potential party leader and then possible Prime Minister. In true “newspeak” style, he called his (and Thatcher’s) view “civilised capitalism.”

    If it hadn’t been for that speech, we could well be talking about “Josephism” rather than “Thatcherism” to this day because as I suggest above, it was really about something much bigger than her. If it was an “ism”, I would call it “Hayekism” after the beastly Austrian economist, Freidrich Hayek or the “monetarism” of the similarly morally bankrupt Milton Friedman, who was a devotee of Hayek.

  9. worky, i’ve no doubt she was probably working for someone else’s agenda, in the same way reagan was being handled.
    there was a young actress who recently got the part of playing a young margaret thatcher.
    after researching the part, she came to the conclusion, that margaret thatcher was a sociopath.
    that’s why you will never have decent world leaders, because normal people do not want to take decisions, that will end up costing the lives of innocent people.
    thatcher and others of her ilk are chosen because they think nothing of killing, that’s my opinion, anyway.
    complete and utter heed the baals make the best leaders, well figureheads.

  10. “To ask which candidate is best is a wrong question. All candidates are venal and arrogant and all people attracted to power are at best mediocre.” – Karl Popper.

  11. I only watched the game on a cr@ppy internet feed. I noticed that there was less hoofing and we created a lot of spurned chances. I thought Fulham were absolutely terrible and were using the tactic of soaking up pressure and hoping to hit us on the break or from a set piece. I didn’t think we were better than other recent home games, I think the opposition flattered us. They were there to be beaten 3 or 4 nil.

    Still, a wins and win. A win or a draw against the Mackems and they could be done. I know others on here don’t want them to go down but Paolo’s appointment sealed that one for me.

    Worky, if you keep coming up with the quotes you might have to move to France. There was an article in the Guardian yesterday explaining how it was popular a year ago to say Joey was misunderstood and a victim of his upbringing. I posted his attempt to be an art critic on here. After the Zlatan, Ladyboy etc. episodes everybody now realises he is just a t*t.

  12. Those Marveaux corners looked dangerous, we almost scored from one!

    Worky was there a poll at the start of the season predicting where we would finish or be battling for? Forgot the results.

  13. Damn. I just looked at Sunderland’s run in and they have 3 home games against Everton, Stoke and Southampton. They could easily pick up points there. They also have Villa and Spurs away. Their recent form is bad and I think we MUST beat them on Sunday to ensure there isn’t a Di Canio bump.

    Spurs on the last day with them trying to get into the Champions League and Scum avoid relegation might be a good game for the not so neutral.

  14. GS says:
    April 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    “I only watched the game on a cr@ppy internet feed. I noticed that there was less hoofing and we created a lot of spurned chances. I thought Fulham were absolutely terrible and were using the tactic of soaking up pressure and hoping to hit us on the break or from a set piece. I didn’t think we were better than other recent home games, I think the opposition flattered us. They were there to be beaten 3 or 4 nil.”

    You noticed right then GS as that was our second lowest percentage in terms of long balls and the first one didn’t really count as it was that one against Wigan where we were playing against 10 men for practically the whole game (we won that one 3-0).

    You are also right about the opposition flattering us. Fulham were having a fairly poor day at the office yesterday, though both teams were poor finishing wise. The way you characterised their play is actually exactly the way WE have been playing most of the time this season, and that is the reason we’ve been so low in the table.

    Whatever the result yesterday though, we had the right approach which is the main thing but only IF it is to be sustained, which I doubt after previous false dawns. What I’m saying here is that one aspect of the dreadfulness of Pardew is his appalling and unique (as far as the Premiership goes anyway) inconsistency. At one end of the scale you have managers like Tony Pulis and Fat Sam who will be consistent, and managers at the other end of the scale like the managers of the top teams, who are consistent too and stick to an overall philosophy. Pardew on the other hand is just all over the place. Newcastle United will play a game like they did yesterday, then revert to the most hideous route one style in the next and so on…

  15. maze202 says:
    April 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    “Worky was there a poll at the start of the season predicting where we would finish or be battling for? Forgot the results.”

    Where do you think Newcastle United will finish in the Premiership next season?

    Europa League? (52%, 1,169 Votes)
    Mid table battlers? (27%, 608 Votes)
    Champion’s League? (18%, 400 Votes)
    Relegated? (2%, 38 Votes)
    Just scraping through? (1%, 32 Votes)

    Total Voters: 2,247

    Maze, there is a link at the bottom of the poll which takes you to all the archived polls. It the link that says “more polls.”

  16. I think I voted for “mid-table battlers” which in truth we haven’t been. Even if we put a run together and finish 10-12 we would still have had an awful season in terms of performances. I think that it will be classed as a season to forget so long as we don’t get relegated.

    I always thought we would be challenging Liverpool and Everton for the 6-8 spots. And we should have been, regardless of injuries.

    A battering of the Mackems might improve my assessment.

  17. Leaving Britain to y’all, I completely agree with the sentiments expressed above re: Ray-gun. Clown is still idolized by many here pretty much BECAUSE his handlers & backers ruined our culture & economy. But I digress.

    worky-I don’t think AP is inconsistent. On occasion, the players seem to be on the same page about ignoring him. It can come off quite well. If AP told me he trained them to play like yesterday I’d wouldn’t believe it.

    I voted for mid-table and if you consider 8th-14th or so mid-table then that’s right. I dare say we’ll finish 11th-14th. You may be putting too much stock by evaluation of performances in terms of how the season is perceived, GS. Many people seemed to lose memories of questionable performances last season after we finished 5th.

  18. Having waited until the end of the delayed tape before commenting, i was surprised to see that few thought we had played well.
    Personally i thought this was our best game this season.
    We were far the better side, no hoofball, in fact few long passes in general.
    Possession football, touch and go, a real pleasure to watch.
    And like Workey left me more puzzled than ever, will the real Alan Pardew please stand up.
    I mean the guy is tactically all over the place, looking like Stoke one week then Arsenal the next.
    Or did he just tell the side, to just go out and play?
    Anyway, yesterdays game has given us a glimpse of what we may be capeable of next season.
    Of course we still need re-inforcements if we want to compete at the top level.
    It’s essential to have quality in depth and not worry about , who’s going to be a starter, believe me there will be plenty of playing time for everyone, what with resting players, injuries, and horses for courses, we will need all we can get.
    I see where HBA is now considered fit, personally i thought he was way overweight and doubt it had anything to do with an injury, but who knows.

    Derby side here,

    Debuchy/Simpsom —-Santon/Haidara/Jonas


    Just looking at the quality of the bench, tells us we still need help, that plus those questionably still injured.

    Of course a fully fit squad i would like to see the following.



  19. What was i thinking, left out Tiote in front of the back four, gotta learn to count up to eleven i guess.
    Would mean eight French speaking starters.
    Aller du noir et du blanc !

  20. 3pts is a welcome 3pts at this stage in the season.gotta take your hat off to Cisse.after hitting the post thursday and again yesterday he never let his head drop and got his well deserved goal.a few more wins,starting sunday against the SMB and we can sigh with relief that this season is over.its been a funny season to say the least but thats NUFC for you…
    as for Maggie,i for one thought ‘good ridence’…she fkd us up north good n proper.with the pits and shipyards closed all she brought to us was misery.drink and a huge drugs problem came very shortly after as well as the crime they brought.

  21. tunyc: what people don’t see is the massive transfer of wealth in the US from the middle class to the wealthy via the increase in SS medicare taxes and the cap thereon, which exempts most of rich people’s earned income. The fact that this is a flat tax with no deductions and is at a very high level is a policy decision. Successive governments have borrowed against this “trust fund” and have used it and deficit spending to benefit the rich and bloat the defence sector. Now that the money supposedly set aside has been spent, or at least earned nothing, the same people are coming after the benefits that were supposedly saved for.

    This is puppet Reagan’s and warmonger Bush’s legacy. Clinton isn’t innocent in all of this either as the ridiculous financial deregulation took place under his and Greenspan’s watch, who, by the way, has pretty much said his Ayn Rand type policies were wrong.

    Still the rich stash their money away in tax havens and use tax schemes to defraud the government. I know because I have seen it first hand. They don’t care about the penalties because the IRS always settle for pennies of the $ and they know it. I have seen that as well.

    You add the deliberate transfer of manufacturing to China, aided by the tax system and no wonder there is only money for the giant defence industry and not a lot else.

    But, those food stamps that go to the very poor are the real problem!

  22. Don’t think reinforcements matter, chuck. With AP’s tactics we will win a few but many results will come down to how poor the opposition is/dumb luck. We have a top-half squad. Fulham trotted out Giorgos Karagounis. 36-YEAR-OLD GIORGOS KARAGOUNIS, who looked past it a couple years ago. Meanwhile we have Cabaye & Sissoko in the engineroom of a relegation-threatened side. It’s not the players, though I can see them becoming a problem as our top guys realize they’ll have to go elsewhere for consistent European football/a chance to win something.

    On another topic, really enjoyed Mancini’s whine. These guys must love giving one-sided explanations with no follow-up. You lost because you didn’t get RVP, Javi Martinez and Agger? For less cash he could have had Demba Ba, Michu and Mats Hummels. Javi Martinez? Ha! You signed two other CMs, one of whom never plays (Rodwell) and and a CB who apparently is one for the future. Where is the need for another DM in a squad with Toure, Barry and the newly-acquired Garcia & Rodwell? Shit, he didn’t have to sell De Jong! Color me unsympathetic. Lost the title because they’re not entitled to it and did nothing to improve. End of.

  23. Blyth-good call on Cisse. I’ve had that thought recently about his head not going down at any point in a very tough season for him. That’s an important quality for a forward. He’s up to what, 12 goals in all competitions? Could’ve had 2-4 more in the last couple fixtures too. Could be an alright campaign for him after all.

  24. Chuck: you know Marveaux is left footed? He would challenge Gouffran for a place on current form.

    I disagree with horses for courses when it comes to Pardew. It gives him too much to think about and leads to him picking an unbalanced side and changing it at half time when we are already 2-0 down.

    We would be home and dry by now if he hadn’t f*cked up the Reading game with his over-thinking.

  25. GS @ 29: agreed. It’s also not widely perceived that extremely low rates of tax on capital gains and on corporate income represent an upward shift in wealth. Folks are so blithely unaware of these things that “the most progressive administration for a generation” can include permanent cuts to social insurance in their proposed budget while proposing significantly smaller (and easily reversed) closure of tax loopholes for the rich. Then there’s the “American Care Act,” an essentially corporatist/fascist piece of legislation. Yet plenty of your “liberal” types over here keep telling me about how great things are going and that I need to stop being such an idealist…because now it’s their guy gutting the working class and deploying the drones.

  26. tunyc: although I totally agree with you that lower rates on cap gains, dividends and corporations result in an upward movement of wealth I am not sure if their levels should be higher. There is the argument that it represents double taxation which to a degree is correct. The problem is more the loopholes and fraud. And the defence budget, of course.

    Have you seen the ads for the Navy that say “The US Navy, a global force for peace”? The US defence budget is more than the next 10 countries’ combined. I’ll join Worky from yesterday and quote Orwell, “war is peace”.

  27. tunyc says:
    April 8, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    “Leaving Britain to y’all, I completely agree with the sentiments expressed above re: Ray-gun.”

    Exactly, just swap the names around, eg Mrs T / Reagan and you have a pretty good idea.

    “worky-I don’t think AP is inconsistent. On occasion, the players seem to be on the same page about ignoring him.”

    Well it’s certainly true that Newcastle United are noticeably more inconsistent than other teams in their style of play, and most importantly, more inconsistent than succesful teams. The rest is a moot point / conspiracy theory.

    The top teams (and most of the others to my knowledge so far) will play a game, then play another game and make roughly the same amount of passes, with roughly the same percentage of long balls and short balls etc.

    The following is my workyticket long ball scale™ which goes as follows:

    7% – 12% – Arsene Wenger. A tippy-tappy passing side who more or less completely eschew the long ball game.

    12% – 15% – David Moyes. A mixed side who are somewhere in the middle

    15% – 25% – Tony Pulis meets Fat Sam on a mortar firing range. A full on long ball side who positively embrace “percentage” football.

    Bearing the above scale in mind, you’ll have teams like Arsenal and Man City and game after game, around 8-9% of their passes will be long balls. Then you’ll have teams like Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Swansea slightly higher at around 9.5-10.5% going through the scale until you get to route one merchants like Tony Pulis with similarly consistent ratings, only around the 15.5-16.5% mark pretty much. You get the picture.

    On the other hand with Pardew, he’ll play one game like yesterday where the percentage of long balls will be a highly respectable 11.4%. Then however, we’ll play the next one and it could be as high as 26.6%!

    This is a joke and though I will give plaudits for the approach yesterday, the more patient build up which eventually bore fruit right at the death, you simply can’t do that and it isn’t just about one game. You have to nail you colours to the mast and give your players a consistent approach, a philosophy even if it backfires sometimes initially, like Pochettino when he came a cropper against us with Southampton or most famously of all, old purple nose in his early days at Man U, when there were actually calls for him to be sacked for indifferent results.

  28. tunyc says:
    April 8, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    “Yet plenty of your “liberal” types over here keep telling me about how great things are going and that I need to stop being such an idealist…because now it’s their guy gutting the working class and deploying the drones.”

    Did they say the same about that other bastard? Clinton? Mr. f**king NAFTA and all the rest? the guy who was responsible for the al-Shifa atrocity? The guy who had Alan Greenspan’s wizened old cock up his arse for the whole of his presidency? Obama and that twat are both just as big a corporate tools as Bush was.

  29. Well i dont like to speak ill of the dead, but in the case of that deadly duo of Ronald Ray-gun and Thatcher, i’m willing to make an exception.
    Greatest role he ever played, leaving things in the hands of the bankers, generals and the Milton Friedman acolyte Greenspan, which caused the begining of a series of Ponzi like bubbles that have been imposed on the US by a combination of Wall St. and their allies in the Fed.
    Plus the assistance of he congress who are owned by Wall Street’s “K Street” bag men.
    As for Thatcher her ellection was the reason i returned to the US in the early eighties, having lived for a number of years in London.
    A very different London i might add.
    Her destruction of the unions was followed here by Ray-gun, his destruction of the Air Traffic Controllers was the blueprint (and this from a former American screen workers union president) for corporations to squeeze workers with the threat of decertification, backed by what had accured with the Traffic Controllers
    All of which ended in an enormous shift of wealth from both the working and middle classes to the wealthy.
    Little has actually changed, with what has become a ten to fifteen percent permanently unemployable population.
    With opposition from congress to raise a minimum wage rate of $7:25 per hour, which one cannot survive on.
    Fact is certain States have had to raise it.
    There’s a good possibility that the present government will lower the rate of increases in social security pensions, in order to make a deal with a Republican minority in the lower house (dont ask, a fcuced up political system, supposedly based on checks and balances)
    So in other words the rich have as yet not garnered all of the wealth yet, having impoverished the working and middle classes they are now turning thier attention on the elderly on fixed incomes that are dwindling at a fast rate, being they have lost sixty percent of their spending power over the last ten years.
    And the problem lies with those who vote who have no idea where their best interests lie, having been the victims of a vast propaganda campaign that has been going on since the countrys inception.
    Actually, there’s little difference between the parties who are impervious to change.
    It would take a third party to make a difference, which just aint gonna happen.
    Hopefully the general public will eventually get it.
    There ware the beginnings with the tea party, mostly Dissatisfied Republicans, who really dont know why, but who’s lifestyles have changed for the worst.
    To the Wall St. protesters who gave those in power a scare and who have’nt for the most part gone away.
    In facct a downturn in the recession/depression, could very well see it resume on a bigger scale.
    The unfortunate thing is it’s leaderlessness, with so many diverging opinions and policies, lacks a sense of purpose and cohesion.
    Thats just some of the fallout from the Thatcher/Ray-gun years, nice people!

  30. GS says:
    April 8, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    “Worky: how do we compare last season to this on long balls?”

    GS, 14.4% last season, 16.3% this season not counting yesterday’s game. Both figures are Premiership only.

    Going back to my inconsistency theme, the lowest figure this season was 10.8% (against 10 man Wigan) and the highest was 26.6% against Sunderland. The latter figure is truly shocking once you’ve studied other teams (including Stoke).

  31. Worky, Clinton having Robert Rubin as Treasury Secretary didn’t help. I have read a few things on Friedman and he didn’t really have any original ideas but was a schmoozer and a salesman.

    The full on liassez faire doesn’t account for human nature or history. Leaving things unchecked always leads to excess and often calamity and war. I still don’t think anybody has gone to jail for the criminal acts on Wall Street and the City. Do you know that Goldman were made whole 100% for their bets with AIG against the world economy. AIG were the bookie and Goldman collected even when the bookie was bankrupt.

    John Paulson should have gone to jail. If that wasn’t insider trading I don’t know what is. He was an insider at Goldman and had them create derivatives to bet against what they were selling to their clients. And since they had manipulated the Ratings Agencies they knew these things were frauds and would collapse.

    You should read Matt Tiabbi at Rolling Stone and his book Griftopia. He seems to be the only one over here who cares that these people are crooks.

  32. GS-disagree about capital gains. It encourages hoarding, corporate pay package chicanery and for what? So people who are so wealthy that they make significant income not working can have a lower tax burden? Under the pretense that they don’t benefit from the commons? Ptoui. BUT, hey-I can negotiate if we’re talking defense budget cuts (back to, I don’t know, maybe just twice China’s?). The tax loophole thing is like trying to build on quicksand-any loopholes that are closed WILL be reopened, quite possibly with the very next bill through congress. Whereas the gutting/looting of social insurance-on which the Ds and Rs agree-will be permanent, irreversable policy.

    worky @ 38: it’s worse than that. I’m still occasionally told that all would be well had Hillary gotten the nomination instead of Obama. Absurd-Clinton was the father of transnational trade agreements and financial deregulation. Only the Lewinsky scandal kept him from gutting social security-this is fact. He had a deal in place with the republicans to privatize it but they backed out to distance themselves from him as they impeached him over a blowjob. Irony.

  33. Tunyc
    Well we disagree i suppose, my point is, if we have the ambition to compete, as a top six side we will need reinforcements.
    Certainly we can probably survive in the top ten with what we presently have.
    But having People like Williamson, Raylor,Gosling, plus a bunch of kids, as back ups, is just not good enough to match those ambitions.
    At present we have around 20 first class players, the rest iether on their way out or questionable bench players, then yongsters.
    We have some out on loan, who can play, Sammo O and Ferguson, but when players lke Cabaye are injured (and he has been) we could use a playmaker come engine room, which is his role.
    We need help on defence, with Debuchy, Santon and Haidara presently out, and Simpson on his way.
    And by the way where is Colo i heard he was back ?
    A playmaker (possibly Sissoko can fill that role) a CD
    and a FB who can play either side, a striker are absolute necessities though.

  34. worky-we’re really not disagreeing. It’s worse if the training varies that much from match to match. Maybe I just can’t imagine the situation being that stupid. Of course you have to go with one approach and of course that can be trying. I’d say CFC are still paying for not sticking with AVB. Then there’s Blackburn, rotting from the head in general but sliding down the table with every new manager; their squad must be thorougly confused as to how they’re supposed to play. Look at what happened to Bolton when Fat Sam left.

    What gets me is MA is sticking with it. It’s like he’s trying to spite knowledgeable fans. Doesn’t the constant lack of achievement bother him? Does he look at our squad of internationals and blame them? And if you believe CH was fired for results, I’ve got a couple bridges I’d like to sell you.

  35. GS says:
    April 8, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    “You should read Matt Tiabbi at Rolling Stone and his book Griftopia. He seems to be the only one over here who cares that these people are crooks.”

    Chris Hedges, GS, not to mention quite a few others. I think it was Hedges where I first read or heard about the Goldman Sachs / AIG thing you mentioned.

  36. chuck-you’re right. We still need a deeper squad to compete for Europe, cups, etc. Completely agree. What I want to point out is that this squad looked dire at times this season, even at full strength. So AP’s tactical negativity cancelled the quality of:

    Ben Arfa

    and others! I don’t know if we’re going to get a starting XI much better than what we have now at full strength.

  37. Worky @45. I know there are a few others but Tiabbi really calls it the way he sees it and quite often swears about it all. Ambrose Evans Pritchard and Matthew Lynn over on your side seem to be at least trying to sound a few warning bells still. And these people are part of the establishment so at least they get read.

  38. tunyc @46: we need another goal scorer to compliment Cisse. One of the Benfica lads might fit the bill?

    The problem is that if we had another goal scorer Pardew would have had Cisse off on Sunday and the other 2 times recently when he has scored in injury time.

  39. The Military is sacrosanct when it comes to budgetary cuts and the only way for politicians to not avoid blame for reducing it was the recent falling off the cliff.
    Where cuts were applied to all as a percentage (well not exactly all)
    Why do you think that Gen. Eisenhower took it upon himself to warn the American public and coin the phrase “Military Industrial Complex”, during his farewell speach.
    And he being a part of that as a former four star general?
    Interesting book named “Blowback” by Chalmers Johnson which explains American WW imperialism and the role of both the US military and it’s reason for being.
    The US military Industrial complex, whose raison d’etre, is to constantly provide the means for the numerous, wars and invasions by US forces throughout the world, since WW11, plus provide arms to allies, where those that can afford them pay through the nose, others find different means for being supplied.
    When one thinks of countries like Egypt, whose total industrial output, is forty percent owned by the military, in the US it’s differents, players like Boeing, General Dynamics, etc. are all on the government tit, hiring recently retired generals and admirals, with contacts who can persuade the armed forces purchasing agencies and it just works out that every state of the union just happens to have a plant or factory producing something or other, which results in jobs that no politician will vote to close which could put his constituants out of work .
    Then again we are not the only ones in the business, the UK does ok also, with joint deals in this country and throughout the world, as do the Russians and French and others.
    Ah well!

  40. Zero Hedge…Gaius Publius @ Naked Capitalism…William Black (Black Report-actually on S&L/junk bond prosecution team)…a lot of voices sounding alarms, all being ignored by the establishment. Because the establishment has different goals than us. Mainly enriching themselves come hell or high water, literally.

  41. GS @ 48: exactly. That Cardozo lad looks a winner but can we afford it? Haha. Of course not. Besides, Lisbon is not in France last I checked. And AP’s tactics can nullify any roster moves. Believe it.

  42. Chuck: you should read “The Iron Triangle” by Dan Briody. It is about Carlyle Group. It is a bit dated but if you want to see how the defense contractors and government are in bed together have a read. It has interesting bits about the Bush’s and Saudi Royal family.

    You can pick it up second hand on Amazon for next to nothing.

    Of course Kiss-assinger beats all when it comes to peddling a Government position for his own gain.

    And did you know that Jack Abramoff and Grover Norquist were in the same conservative group together at a very small college?

  43. Chuck, I agree with alot of what you are saying, but we’re all discussing various personalities like Thatcher, Reagan, Clinton, Obama, Friedman, Greenspan etc and coutries but now they are just incidental. Really it’s just about “Capital” (in the Marxist sense of the word). Capital is global now, capital is supra-national. It moves freely. It is above nations and is above the law.

  44. A Bobby Robson type swansong and a trophy :) C’mon Ashley, he is a free agent so get on the phone behind Pardew’s back, like Short did with Di Canio.

  45. i agree we need to strengthen the squad,first and foremost we need a striker.we should stay well clear of the QPR players,Hoillet(not good enough),Taarbat(waste of space,to greedy,hacky lazy).so to even suggest these players shows a lack of knowledge.Cordozo would be a welcome addition but sadly can not see that one happening.that Lima who came on and scored looked lively and dangerous.another player i like the look of is Sportings Wolfswinkel who mentioned on here afew weeks back.
    since his arrival Mbiwa hasnt quite getting to grips with the prem yet imo.he has been abit sloppy in posession and not to great in the tackle.i think next season we will see a much improved Mbiwa.

  46. GS says:
    April 8, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    “Why not us? Heynckes’ record has been very good but helped by the quality at Bayern.”

    Perhaps Ashley is just keeping his powder dry for when Jose Mourinho leaves Real Madrid at the end of the season?

  47. BLYTH MAG says:
    April 8, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    “Hoillet(not good enough)”

    Are you trying to start a fight with Chuck? :-)

    Hoilett’s his little heartthrob and he might well defend his honour in very robust terms after that smear.

    We can still sort your little problem if you want to by the way? Or are have you decided to stay as “Blyth”?

  48. Worky i’ll just stay with this account mate,i cant be botherd to slaver on changing things as am not to clever on computers :)

  49. Blyth: about 2 weeks ago for 8 million I think. Not conditional on anything. You would think there might be a relegation clause but I don’t think there is.

  50. cheers for that GS,shame tho coz i think that kids got a bright future ahead.
    lets face it Worky,what has Hoillet done? one above average season at Blackburn,where he really could’nt fail to shine in that squad.alot of the hype was way over the top imo.QPR are welcome to him.hope he enjoys championship football next season :)

  51. GS says:
    April 8, 2013 at 11:38 pm

    “Blyth: about 2 weeks ago for 8 million I think.”

    Norwich have a very small budget comparatively speaking. That’s like a club the size of Newcastle buying a player for the best part of £20 million, like a Michael Owen or whatever. They’re pushing the boat out a bit by their standards, especially when survival wasn’t mathematically certain.

  52. Blyth Mag or whatever you are calling yourself these days.

    Well thats an opinion on Hoilett, mines a bit different.
    Unfortunately he has been injured for a good part of the season, but IMO, the guy has got pace, can take on defenders, score and can play a physical game.
    He can play on either wing or behind the center forward ,there are not a lot of players around with that kinda resume.
    He was picked up for four million quid, (not a transfer fee) as reimbursement as his contract had expired.
    He was also tracked by Spurs, Arsenal, Everton, Borissia monchengladbach and our nieghbors Sunderland, not to mention we Newcastle United were also interested.
    So once again you prove you are talking nonsense.
    If your judgement is contrary to that of the above mentioned clubs.
    Yeah i know it’s simply the fact anything i say, you take a contrary view, c’mon grow up !

  53. Yes it was rumored we were interested in Wolfswinkel, but i always doubted it, as we could have signed him from when he was still in Holland, probably for less than the reported eight million Norwich offer.
    Actually i think we missed out by not signing Long from Reading, for a reported under six million.
    The guy is one of the hardest working forwards i have watched, would have fitted behind Cisse perfectly and gets his own goals, a guy who does’nt get a lot of ink, but is respected by his peers.
    But then according to Blyth Mag (who would choose to lives in Blyth) what do i know ?

  54. Well it’s the NCAA college basketball finals, Louisville Vs Michigan, gotta go.

  55. the bloke wants to grow up GS or lay off the amstel,probably both me thinks.;)

  56. Worky, any chance of asking David Icke or Alex Jones to write a guest blog? Right down their street is!

  57. Joking aside, that’s why I love this blog. Where can you go to debate anything from FAT mike CaTshley and co to global capitalists? It’s a small world really, eh? Irony! Who needs it?

  58. I really hated Thatcher and I dont use that word lightly. I hated her smugness, I hated her pearl earrings, the way she dressed like mutton dressed as mutton (thanks Harry Enfield). I mean, seriously she was dressing like 50 when she was 5. I hated Dennis, ugly c@nt. And Mark the arms dealer. Above all else I hated her politics. She was a cow and I am glad she is dead, just 40 years too late.

  59. Not sure I can say I’m glad she’s dead, but I certainly didn’t like her either, GS. Then again, I kind of despise them all. Pretty much a non-voter these days. Not sure where the world is going…glug,glug…

  60. jimisol says:
    April 9, 2013 at 5:42 am

    “Worky, any chance of asking David Icke or Alex Jones to write a guest blog? Right down their street is!”

    I’ve met David Icke a couple of times jimisol. He did an “Audience with…” type thing at a huge squat I was helping to run in the early nineties. You could even tell from his clothes that he’d gone barking mad. Having written that, he actually made sense to start with, until he got on to the lizards and the Jews.

  61. Worky @81: That will be trouble. We will be accused of disrespect. It really isn’t though, if you hated her when she was alive, why is it disrespectful to still hate her when she is dead?

  62. workyticket says:

    I’ve met David Icke a couple of times jimisol. He did an “Audience with…” type thing at a huge squat I was helping to run in the early nineties. You could even tell from his clothes that he’d gone barking mad.

    Well you can’t expect him to wear a suit at your old house, Worky. Probably had his anti-lentil soup cape on!

  63. Actually, I love lentil soup; but my favourite is mung-bean stew. Wonder if Alan’s Missus cooks him that. Debate lads!

  64. Reagan and Thatcher did succeed in what they wanted. They wanted to make us all more selfish, to break up communities, villages and towns. Have us all look after our petty wants. De-socialize human kind so a few could have bigger yachts.

    Thatcher really did think that the world was an amalgam of people looking after their own self interest. She never thought there was something better than that. It was sort of the basest of thinking and after a generation we are seeing the results now. It is almost Dickensian in the way society is haves and have nots. That is her legacy, to take us all back a century where chancers like Blair succeed and Harrow and Eton still rule.

  65. Question: What do’ya’ll think about…sorry, wifey had something music on in the background;

    valid question: does anyone who is critical of Pardew now want him to succeed? I’ve been as frustrated as anyone, biting the edges of me tv, watching some of his antics/tactics. But he does wear his heart on his sleeve, which is one of the only things that has kept me going with him; the other is the, perhaps debatable propaganda machine, media’s portrayal of the players respect for him. I’m no media lapdog, but you wouldn’t get players like Cabaye persuading his mates to come and join a team with a manager who was disliked or ignored when it came to whistle time.

    Being a sucker for an underdog, with all the criticism being thrown toward and all the passion seemingly being displayed, I’m wanting this guy to stay at the helm and somehow improve his trade. I wouldn’t want another season like this one, but, likewise, neither would the players or manager; or Ashley allow it to happen.

    Point is: maybe there’s a fine line between getting it totally wrong and about right, which there is already evidence of that happening in the last couple of seasons. Does Pardew deserve another couple of years?

  66. GS says:

    Jimisol: stop trying to take the p*ss. You are not doing a very good job of it.

    Stop taking yourself so seriously.

  67. GS, actually, I love lentil soup–being a vegan. I love listening to Ickey, love, and I’m not sure why you give Chuck so much shit, as you give him far more. Get yer head outta yer ass.

  68. jimisol @88

    iv always wanted ANY of wor past/present managers to succeed.who would’nt?

    chuck @70

    you say all them other teams were intrested in the newspaper you read that in was the front page headline ‘fairys found in backyard’ ?
    dont believe eveything you read in the paper.all them teams after him and he goes to QPR!!!! well aye.

  69. From what I remember about Marx, his view was that capitalism would sow the seeds of its own destruction by creating greater wealth but also impossible inequality. The end game was supposed to be an uprising and communist utopia. Who would have guessed the uprisings are about religion.

    They are both the same though, religion and Marxism. Neither could foresee rockets or the internet so how can so many people rely on their false wisdom?

  70. jimisol: what is the point of that pathetic wind up? Now get back to Ed’s blog and write “1st” and “2nd”.

  71. BLYTH MAG says:

    iv always wanted ANY of wor past/present managers to succeed.who would’nt?

    Sure, mate. I’m sure anyone would say the same for the sake of the team. But it seems, even in hope, many would prefer a change of manager sooner than later. That was my point.

  72. GS says:

    jimisol: what is the point of that pathetic wind up? Now get back to Ed’s blog and write “1st” and “2nd”.

    What wind up is that, GS? Another hurricane in the West? Would some vaseline help to get yer head outta yer ass?

  73. Jimisol says:

    Actually, I love lentil soup; but my favourite is mung-bean stew. Wonder if Alan’s Missus cooks him that. Debate lads!

  74. GS says:

    They are both the same though, religion and Marxism. Neither could foresee rockets or the internet so how can so many people rely on their false wisdom?

    Should get back to football, GS.

  75. Jimisol: I will get back to football. There was talk of Thatcher and Thursday night though. It brought out my hatred of Thatcher.

  76. You are not very good at taking the p*ss are you jimisol? Have a thought now and again.

  77. Best one so far “The lady is not for returning”

    Unfortunately wor Maggie continued to see the world in the eyes of a rural lincolnshire grocers doughter, in the market town of Grantham, one of the most depressing towns i have ever visited.

    Brought up as a strict methodist, with the ethic of a shopkeeper, (quite a combination)combined with having been impressed by reading Heyek, (who railed against any goverment intervention, fearing totalitarianism) while at Oxford, had it’s effect i assume on forming, the finished product.

    It was also obvious she had other problems, a lack of any regard for those her policies effected plus absoluetly no regard for those who opposed her.
    That would be in general the Celtic parts of the UK, (Scotland) where she first imposed a poll tax, as revenge for the entire country voting against her.
    I guess they were more perceptive than their English counterparts.

    Her hardened stance against the republican movement in NI, was responsible for the continuing of the troubles, whereas matters could have been solved much sooner via talks and negotiations, which did eventually take place.

    Though against her, (self described), better judgement, her signing the Anglo-Irish agreement, the first step in co-operation with the the Irish Republic, which eventually produced the Good Friday Agreement, following a thirty year struggle for equal rights for the Republican minority.

    Does it surprise me that there appears to be more people celebrating her death than mourning it, no not really, as i have rarely known anyone who was detested so much, by so many of her own people, for so much social destruction in the name of capital.
    I guess Hayek has a lot to answer for too!

  78. GS says:

    You are not very good at taking the p*ss are you jimisol? Have a thought now and again.

    I’m still not sure where I was originally meant to be takin’ the piss, GS. You takin’ too much coke…a cola you skizt?

  79. chuck says:

    also obvious she had other problems, a lack of any regard for those her policies effected

    Couldn’t agree more. I was brought up in Yorkshire where some of the villages were practically owned by the mines. Good communities turned into either welfare siphons or drug pits.

  80. GS@103

    he would be slightly entertaining if he was not nasty to other users who had different opinions than his own.

  81. GS says:
    April 9, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    “Hey Chuck: at least you are entertaining and not a moron.”

    Someone’s got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

    “They are both the same though, religion and Marxism. Neither could foresee rockets or the internet so how can so many people rely on their false wisdom?”

    Have you ever actually read Capital, GS?

  82. Blyth Mag.

    Well who knows whats true or not, talking bout what we read or hear in the media, i can only assume there’s a certain amount of truth.
    Actually i have no recall of stating it was front page news, or even mentioning i read it in any paper(your words)
    Only too QPR ?
    The fact Hoilett went to QPR for four million pounds and a decent contact, as a free agent, the four million was i believe an arbitrary amount awarded.
    Which is one of the highest i have seen in any deal like this.
    So being you have no argument other than poo hoo, just let it go.

  83. BLYTH MAG says:


    he would be slightly entertaining if he was not nasty to other users who had different opinions than his own.

    GS is far more nasty than Chuck, BLYTH MAG. Chuck is just too straight-up for some, whereas GS seems to be looking for it.

  84. GS says:
    April 9, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    “Worky @106: a long time ago. I played cricket next to highgate cemetery.”

    I see, you’re in one of those moods. Have you been on the Amstel like Chuck?

  85. GS says:

    Worky @106: a long time ago. I played cricket next to highgate cemetery.

    Reeeally. That’s intere… okay time for bed.

    Good vibes from China. Dreaming of a 2/3-0 on Thursday. C’mon LADS!!

  86. Worky: I am fine. Didn’t realize Joey Barton had signed up to your blog under the name jimisol. he says:

    “GS. You takin’ too much coke…a cola you skizt?”

    I know I replied calling him a moron. I will try not to get into anymore name calling.

  87. Worky: Highgate cemetery is where Marx is buried. I know you know that. It has the big tombstone.

  88. If anyone can point out what the next elected parties changed in Maggie’s policies I’ll stand corrected. It seems to me that they kept them and let the pressure stay with Conservatives.
    I can understand hatred more than most, living in Belfast. But Mrs T is not Hitler, is Not Pol Pot, is not Stalin, is not Mugabe.
    By the way I’m not a fan or Tory voter, but this pensioner left family.
    In Northern Ireland no one was not effected by the “Troubles”. Each side must share the blame. Celebrating death is barbaric.
    I wont be observing any a minutes silence, but rather getting on with life, neither will i be rude and will respect her Grandchildren. Lets get back to football

  89. It’s amazing, how North Korea has been demonized and made out to be the bad guy in this recent display of military might on the Korean Peninsula.
    The claim of the PRNK is they have been looking to sign a peace treaty since 1953, which ended hostilities on the Peninsula, after a military stalemate.
    That in conjunction with the USA the South Korean Government, refuses to agree on the presnt status quo and each year threatens through excercises like those taking place at this time, which it claims are actual,
    based on invasion plans.
    That plus economic sanctions imposed on North Korea, because of their developement of nuclear weapons (which the US has at present based in South Korea) in which case the north has had to develope for it’s own defence.
    It appears to me we could be approaching a dangerous situation, where it would only take stupidity to set off a nuclear exchange that could expand and involve both China and Japan.
    But all the weestern media has come out on the side of those who are conducting the dangerous military manouvres.
    And condeming North korea for attempting to retaliate.

  90. Worky
    Nah! just letting off steam.
    Going o join an old friend for some lunch and a couple of Amstels right now, leave the fans in peace.

  91. Belfast

    Lighten up pal, just because you are from that part of Ireland does’nt make you a spokesperson or voice of reason.
    No Thatcher is not Pol Pot or Hitler, Stalin even.
    But she just bring’s out so much hatred (even as time has passed since her demise from poweri) in people which is a result in her devisive and destructive policies, that their are few who are willing to say a kind word about her.

  92. I’ve said my piece. I don’t want to be dragged into this. I can appreciate everyone’s opinion. I’ll just agree to disagree?

  93. worky @ 106: beat me to on reading capital.

    GS-most everything you have to say interesting and insightful but you really are missing the mark equating Marxism with religion. Christianity for example presents complete revelation of everything, literally, in the universe. It promises a utopia for believers and presents history as a straight line leading to a set “goal.” Marxism is an historical methodology. There’s no utopia (or anything specific) guaranteed and, of course, the Communists were just one leftist political party for whom Marx wrote a pamphlet. As historical methodology, it is flexible enough to integrate variant historical events. For example, as someone who subscribes to Marxist ideology, I’ll point out that capitalism has destroyed itself, or rather the apparent dangers of it have kept Capital from implementing it as a pure system. Thus the bread and circuses keep coming, as does the corporate welfare, neither of which are compatible with theoretical “capitalism.” In any case, I dare say Marx will be proven right about even the quasi-capitalism we have now, since I do believe that history is driven by economics more than anything and that our current set up is going to drive folks into the streets with torches & pitchforks-sooner or later.

  94. chuck-are you really defending North Korea? Its ruling regime? Who live the ridiculous lives they do while most of their country literally starves?

    I don’t care for U.S. hegemony in general or specifics. Our government plays a shitty game with states that don’t toe their line but let me assure you that a nuclear-armed North Korea is a danger to the world. Nothing good can come of it. They’re China’s proxies to use for dangerously provocative geopolitical shenanigans-just like Israel for us. Again, not saying the US gov’t isn’t a bunch of shitheads, after all we’ve been just completely cool with Israel stealing nuclear tech from us and were totally BFF with Pervez Mussharaf.

    For comparison, Iran is under much more unreasonable pressure and is essentially ringed by U.S. military installations. But they don’t go running around threatening to send every ship in the Persion Gulf to the bottom with their sunburn missiles (though unlike NK’s claims, they could actually do this). Because it’s irresponsible and you can’t deflect your own irresponsibility by pointing to someone else. And it doesn’t tend to serve your goals to throw tantrums, which is a good thing.

  95. tunyc: my thing about Marxism is that it has us hurtling inexorably towards an end point. I don’t think life works like that and I will be dead before it happens anyway. I more agree with Keynes – in the long run we are all dead, and when the facts change I change my mind.

  96. Belfast@116 Having my best friend killed at my side and being forced to kill to survive did not make me hate.I felt lots of emotions Pity sorrow guilt and more.Maggie Thatcher gave me hate! she gave a lot of people the ability to hate.

  97. tunyc says:
    April 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    “Again, not saying the US gov’t isn’t a bunch of shitheads, after all we’ve been just completely cool with Israel stealing nuclear tech from us”

    You were completely cool with them deliberately sinking one of your ships and killing 30 odd US sailors too back in LBJ’s time.

  98. I apologize for my comment@129 this blog is not the place for such remarks but all things Thatcher give me the “Red mist”

  99. GS-but that’s not Marxism. Those are the ridiculous claims of various political parties (such as the clowns in NK, who are not at all actual Marxists but rather old-school tyrants with a veneer of ideology). Capital never says we’re hurtling toward an end point, it simply points out that historical paradigms are largely based on economics and tend to be, in the long run, self-defeating.

    worky-they didn’t sink the Liberty though they damaged it beyond repair. All so the world wouldn’t know about their war crimes in the Golan Heights. The Israelis are good at brinksmanship (and war crimes). I can’t stand our relationship with Israel. And worse, can’t hardly say a word criticizing it here in NYC without being accused of antisemitism and supporting terrorists.

  100. GS @ 132: these days I’m mulling over the question of who is the most undeserving recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize: Kissinger or Obama. Dead heat if you ask me. Either way, the committee has embarassed itself and made the award irrelevant by these choices.

  101. It has been a long time since I read anything about Marx. However, from what I remember his writings always had an inevitable conclusion – the end of capitalism, which would lead to something better.

    I have a much more dire view of the future – more HG Wells, Morlocks.

  102. tunyc says:
    April 9, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    “Kissinger or Obama.”

    You forgot about Sadat and Begin, tunyc.

    No contest for the absolutely disgusting bombing of Cambodia and Laos, and the campaign of “black terror” which eventually led to Pol Pot. They were two countries who weren’t even at war with the US. That was so egregious, it’s beyond words.

    If you read some of Kissinger’s quotes, he is genuinely sick in the head.

  103. tunyc: chucky always has an interesting take on things, which is why I sort of like him when shove comes to push. I have no idea where he gets his views on North Korea but them guys in the NYC bars must like what he says :)

  104. Obama is not that bad. It could be a lot worse. It could be der, der, der… THATCHER or f#ckin Blare. or the man in a grey suit. Or Geoffrey Howe. Or the fat headed man from Eton.

    Worky: do you remember Dennis Healy saying of debating Geoffrey Howe that it was like “being mauled by a dead sheep”?

  105. Nutmag says:
    April 9, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    “I apologize for my comment@129 this blog is not the place for such remarks but all things Thatcher give me the “Red mist”

    You have nothing to apologise for Nutmag. GS is the one who has some apologising to do.

  106. Oh, and since we are on Thatcher.

    The best quote about the Belgrano was Tam Dalyell telling a Tory backbencher (I think) “you four eyed git, I’ll see you outside”.

  107. Belfast Toon says:
    April 9, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    “If anyone can point out what the next elected parties changed in Maggie’s policies I’ll stand corrected. It seems to me that they kept them and let the pressure stay with Conservatives.”

    Not much Belfast, things are actually worse. If you look to politicians though, they’re not really that important. Countries are governed more by corporations, banks and international monetary organisations than by politicians nowadays.

  108. Sorry Worky. I was back in Seaton Burn a year ago and it is dead. The Thatcher thing has me worked up. It didn’t have to die like that. It was probably inevitable that the coal would be gone but other countries were subsidizing their shipbuilding and engineering during a manufacturing depression. What is left now – call centres and Branson.

    It didn’t have to be all in one go. That was Thatcher.

  109. What Thatcher started was a reorganisation of politics. She was no more Tory than Blair was Labour and clinging to party politics because “that’s the way I was brought up” is just ludicrous.

    Thatcher was horrendous and, despite the cries of the Champagne socialists, Blair was worse. Thatcher was a disgrace but at least she never denied her politics; Blair continued her politics and tried (badly) to disguise himself as a “Labour Man” in doing so. Yes, he admitted to a “Third Way” agenda eventually but he didn’t get elected on that. The so-called socialists sucked up his manifesto nonsense thinking they were getting shot of the Tories, only to elect a self-agrandising, self-serving Tory-replicant instead.

    And yet *still* there are people who think “by golly I’m working class and I’ll vote Labour” as if it makes any difference. Tits. You have to be blind to not to see that we’re set on a political course that mere voting has little influence on.

  110. Thatcher distroyed the whole social fabric of this country.Unfortunately it was the people who banged the drums and waved the flags and still can’t see the damage she did that gave her that power.

  111. As I was saying much earlier… I think people at SJP will boo during the minute of silence for Thatcher and I think there will be bad stuff said in the press about it.

    The Daily Mail will even take their eyes off Kim Kardashian’s ars* for a minute to moan.

  112. I think I wrote something like this yesterday but “Thatcherism” could could have been “Josephism” (as in Keith Joseph) if he didn’t make a rather unfortunate speech about the breeding habits of the poor. My point is that we’re focusing on personalities because we like to do that, but it leads us up the wrong path. It’s about larger forces and the politicians are just cowardly cardboard cutouts now. Thatcher was so bad she even sent the cows barmy! Hugh could be right though when he writes that Blair’s worse. When someone comes from the left and wants to be be like Thatcher, they actually DO become worse because they become the Labour traitor’s exagerrated charicature of the old enemy when it comes to things like warmongering and the licking the bumhole of the Yanks (no offence Yanks). Blair was just pathetic with Bush, but Mrs T had had more balls with Reagan. She went round the whole world like a Typhoon bossing people around like a scary English matron and got away with it because she was scarier than a Mafia Don. Yasser Arafat once made a Thatcher joke, he said “She isn’t the “Iron lady,” she’s the iron man!” They just called Blair a poodle so maybe she was worse after all. I write that because people actually listened to her sometimes, like with the ruthless IMF and World Bank privatisation programmes inflicted on indebted nations owed alot to the UK.

  113. Nutmag, nothing you said you need to apologise for. I maybe should apologise for my comments. Just cannot understand how people forget the relatives left behind. When you kill someone, that’s all you think of. I think you understand NI more than most.

  114. hmm!a most unusual football blog !

    Nevermind, im sure a number of contributers have dismissed my defense of the North Korean regime, as misguided and contrary.
    A conclusion probably reached on information they have acquired from media sorces controlled by western sources (US/Euro)tv or other media.
    My question is what did you expect to hear ?
    To possibly hear any alternate point of view from those sources ?
    Have you ever questioned those sources ?

    There are three countries presently suffering from western economic sanctions still, Cuba, Iran,and North Korea.

    One of which the problem is about their developement of a Nuclear defensive weapon, the other simply for enriching material that could in fact create a nuclear weapon.
    No different from the weapons acquired by everyone from India, Pakistan, France The UK, the USA, Russia, Israel etc.
    And the main opposition comes from the very country holding the most nuclear weapons, the USA.
    Ironic ?
    Yes if it were not so scarey.

    Yes propoganda does not just take place during wartime, it’s an ongoing thing.

    for instance, during the Kenyan insurrection, the Mau Mau, were demonized as among the most evil of people.
    Mau Mau becoming synonymous with brutality and savagery.
    As it turns out the real villians were the British armed forces and the Kanyan police services.

    The undisputable facts are fewer than three hundered white Kenyans were killed, possibly less and at least two hundred thousand native Kenyans , possibl more, were killed and tortured.
    Many rounded up into concentration camps, both men women and children.
    But my point is, not a word of the truth escaped to the citizens of the UK of the reality that was accuring.
    A typical example of if you can control the media, you can construct your own reality.
    Dont believe it ?
    Just check it out.
    Though you msay have trouble finding facts and figures, from UK government files, as they have yet to be made public, even after fifty years ?
    Why ?

  115. Hugh De Payen
    Of course you are right, in order to get elected to-day you have to move to the center, a lesson Blair learned from “Slick Willie”
    Just look at the present elected government of Conservative/Liberal Dems.
    A lot of it has to do with who we think we are, few consider themselves working class these days.
    A recent study has revealed there are seven social classes in the UK, which consigns the middle vs working classes to the dustbin of politics.
    In which case the UK is becoming more like the US having within each party the whole spectrum of political opinions from extreme left/right, to center.
    But at least there’s the semblance of a third party, which could play the role of kingmaker at a price.
    My point is nothing remains the same, politics change with the mores of the times.

  116. chiuck says:
    April 10, 2013 at 2:57 am

    “Nevermind, im sure a number of contributers have dismissed my defense of the North Korean regime, as misguided and contrary.”

    Chuck, I know what what you’re on about anyway, this has happened before. North Korea don’t really want to fire a thermonuclear warhead at South Korea or the United States. They want to sit down and talk about massive quantities of aid money. We just get fed lots of propaganda drivel about it though, like with Iran.

    “A recent study has revealed there are seven social classes in the UK, which consigns the middle vs working classes to the dustbin of politics.”

    Not really Chuck, there have been the NRS social grades which have existed for over 50 years (A, B, C1, C2, D and E) A being upper middle class, B being middle class, C1 lower middle class, C2 skilled working class, D lower and unskilled working class and finally E which are those at the lowest level of subsistence, like “Rab C.Nesbitt”. There’s no upper class there as they are just a handful of aristocrats really.

    “The undisputable facts are fewer than three hundered white Kenyans were killed, possibly less and at least two hundred thousand native Kenyans , possibly more, were killed and tortured.”

    Don’t be daft Chuck. It was a nasty business, there were atrocities but hundreds of thousands is a huge exaggeration. Bad as it was, it was a few tens of thousands at the very most, though that doesn’t make it ok.

  117. I wonder if they’ll be inviting that daft Argie woman, Kirschner, to Thatcher’s funeral as the Argentinian head of state? That would be funny.

  118. And one last thing on Thatcher. She was the woman who arguably started the ball rolling for the current financial and banking crisis with the “Big Bang” in the mid eighties. It was “Slick Willie” as Chuck calls him, not Reagan, who copied her in the world’s largest economy, ripping down the division between commercial and investment banking and now we are where we are today. Thanks Maggie, thanks Bill.

    As some of us have written already, it’s not about Republican or Democrat, Reagan or Clinton, Thatcher or Blair, it’s about larger forces than mere personalities or political parties. They’re just “two cheeks of the same arse” to borrow George Galloway’s charming term.

  119. And one last thing from me.I find it ironic that having a minutes silence at a football match (If True) When Thatcher used “Fooball Hooliganism”of the eighties as a saftey valve for the unrest she was causing.At least mine is leading back into football.

  120. Should people be respectful of people in death that they hated when they were alive? Wouldn’t it be hypocritical? The funeral is going to be another excuse to get the riot police out.

    I don’t blame MPs for not turning up. I wouldn’t blame one for making a speech saying her policies were bad for Britain except the rich and the City, and that she was totally heartless and deserves to be treated the way she treat others.

  121. Nutmag, let me tell you somthing about football hooliganism and the Heysel disaster which led to us us being banned from all European competition.

    Now I don’t usually do conspiracy theories, I usually loathe them but here’s one. Lots of countries had, and still have football hooligans. However, thanks to UEFA and Thatcher, it has came to be seen as the “English” disease.

    The whole thing about English clubs being banned from European competition came from UEFA’s decision to hold the 1985 European Cup final at a stadium which was literally falling down, something they should have been criminally culpable for. The 39 Juventus fans who died weren’t killed by Liverpool supporters, they were killed by a collapsing wall. Also, many of the Juventus fans were just as big a hooligans as the Liverpool fans.

    English teams had won 7 out of the last 8 European Cup finals in 1985 and the biggest of them all, Liverpool, were in another final and UEFA didn’t like that at all. They also didn’t like the idea of being held responsible for those 39 deaths either and it was a classic case of killing two birds with one stone, ie passing the blame for those deaths from themselves to Liverpool fans and getting all English teams out of the competition in the process.

    Now comes Thatcher (not a great football lover). She dives in and tells the English FA to withdraw English clubs from European competition before UEFA had even taken any action. She was mouthing off non-stop to the media about English football hooligans from some kind of subhuman degenerate class as if they were the only ones. This was for her own domestic political ends but it absolutely delighted UEFA and emboldened them. Two days after Thatcher had a word with the FA, they banned all English clubs from European competition for five years and Liverpool for six years.

    However it was UEFA who were really culpable for that disaster. They’re a bunch of lying murderers.

  122. The thing about Thatcher was that she instituted policies that put millions on the dole and then demonized them for being on the dole. It takes more than a few months to rebuild whole communities. Most people understand that it is strategically important to have an energy, steel and car industry that will sometimes need support. Thatcher didn’t, and was short sighted and caused a lot of the problems that the Daily Mail and Telegraph so smugly point out.

  123. ps: Incidentally, that Heysel final I wrote about above, it was the current UEFA shitbag in chief, Platini, who scored the winning goal (a dodgy penalty) in a completely rigged game.

  124. GS, well the Germans certainly know that. All the old “macho” industries had strong trade unions which she wanted to destroy. She moved us into service industries. She made London the banking capital of the world with the disastrous “Big Bang” I mentioned above and bankers weren’t like Scargill and McGahey. Meanwhile the Geordies and other northerners eventually became phone jockeys in call centres, which was just the most stupid thing ever for a first world economy like the UK. It was only a matter of time before an English speaking country where people were willing to work for even less than desperate, unemployed Northerners, ie Indians, would move in and take over.

    BTW GS, did you know that real unemployment in the US is around 16-20% now? That’s what it would have been in the old days anyway before they started to rig the numbers by changing who counted as unemployed people.

    As for the UK, one trick amongst several to fiddle unemployment figures was to switch people from the ordinary dole to Incapacity Benefit and now you have Iain Duncan Smith leading the current pogrom against the genuinely sick and disabled. You couldn’t make it up.

  125. After one of Apartheid’s biggest supporters, Mrs Thatcher, read a statement that the ANC would target British companies in South Africa, she said:

    “when the ANC says that they will target British companies. This shows what a typical terrorist organisation it is.”

  126. John Gummer in the Lords has just said that Thatcher was an attractive woman, “she had beautiful wrists and ankles”.

    Below is the wit and wisdom of Thatcher:

  127. Worky

    I have no idea where you plucked the no more than tenthousand Kenyan casualties from, which is as you noted still a large number.
    I suggest if you want to hear the truth, you should read Caroline Elkins book “Imperial Reckoning”
    Which covers the entire period and mentions the famous Betsy Braddock as the lone voice in parliament, who railed against the methods being used.
    But thats not really the point i had intended to make, it was how the media, when controlled by governments,
    (yes at that time, there were agreements made by the British press owners, to avoid disclosing the truth of what was taking place, but the freedom to demonize the Kenyans, fighting to regain their freedom, amatter of national duty, as in wartime, so to speak)
    What i’m saying over a period of eight years from 1952 to 1960, the truth of what was accuring, was withheld
    from the British public, amazing but true.
    Which is but an example of how things are done by those who can manipulate the media, which is the case in regard to the present situation in Korea, after all who but myself is defending the position of North Korea, no one.
    But does that mean it is’nt a legitimate claim ?
    And oh by the way all you have to do is check those figures on Wikopedia, they actually claim as many as three hundred thousand deaths, surpised ?
    Kenyan insurgency.

  128. chuck says:
    April 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm


    I have no idea where you plucked the no more than tenthousand Kenyan casualties from, which is as you noted still a large number.
    I suggest if you want to hear the truth, you should read Caroline Elkins book “Imperial Reckoning”

    Chuck, I never wrote “no more than tenthousand” I wrote “a few tens of thousands”

    I’m afraid that Caroline Elkins was wrong, Chuck. You’ve been had there.

    “And oh by the way all you have to do is check those figures on Wikopedia”

    OK then, I will, but I’ve already seen Elkins’ figures trashed by everyone else in a long documentary on the subject years back, and rightly so because they relied on anecdotal evidence, which usually ends up being bollocks.

    BTW, you seem to have forgotten to mention that the Mau Mau also committed atrocities which killed thousands too.

  129. Can not believe your arguing about how many Kenyian lives were lost it was Thousands I think that is bad enough.I agree with you Chuck the real facts were never released.As Ive stated in a previous discussion on the subject I served out there during that time and only by a stroke of luck survived.It was a shocking awakening to find you may not be on the good guys side after all.Since then I have questioned everything the most important word to me will always be Why?

  130. Chuck, OK, I looked it up on Wikipedia

    “The total number of deaths attributable to the Emergency has been a source of dispute: Caroline Elkins claims it is “tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands”.[189] Elkins numbers have been challenged by the British demographer John Blacker, who demonstrated in detail that her numbers were overestimated, explaining that Elkins’ figure of 300,000 deaths “implies that perhaps half of the adult male population would have been wiped out—yet the censuses of 1962 and 1969 show no evidence of this—the age-sex pyramids for the Kikuyu districts do not even show indentations.”[183]

    “His study dealt directly with Elkins’ claim that “somewhere between 130,000 and 300,000 Kikuyu are unaccounted for” at the 1962 census,[190] and was read by both David Anderson and John Lonsdale prior to publication.[188] Half of Blacker’s own estimate of 50,000 comprises children under the age of ten. David Elstein has noted that leading authorities on Africa have taken issue with parts of Elkins’ study, in particular her mortality figures: “The senior British historian of Kenya, John Lonsdale, whom Elkins thanks profusely in her book as ‘the most gifted scholar I know’, warned her to place no reliance on anecdotal sources, and regards her statistical analysis—for which she cites him as one of three advisors—as ‘frankly incredible'”; “Susan Carruthers of Rutgers University, who noted that Elkins had managed to confuse the Hutu and the Tutsi in Rwanda, said: ‘she proves the least reliable guide to history: this was not genocide—history is not well served by its sloppy invocation’.”[188]

    “The British possibly killed in excess of 20,000 Mau Mau militants,[5] but in some ways more notable is the smaller number of Mau Mau suspects dealt with by capital punishment: by the end of the Emergency, the grand total was 1,090. At no other time or place in the British empire was capital punishment dispensed so liberally—the total is more than double the number executed by the French in Algeria.[191]”

  131. Oh good we’re back to football or I hope the Toon are tomorrow night.Saylor injured again though.

  132. Football
    It’s amazing what a win can do for some people, it appears Pardew thinks we are now, the new Barcelona, challenging the side to repeat some of Barcas feats.
    Relax Al, we only beat(and lets not forget just) a no more than fair Fulham side.

    I believe we have left ourselves a tough way to go in order to get through to the semis.

    Benfica are just too good a side and we will probably end this season with having had a good run, plus survival in the PL.

    This comming season will be proof of the pudding as to where Ashley’s ambitions lie.

    We have been linked to any number of players, many who can be dismissed as media nonsense.

    But we do appear to be serious in our persuit of Aubameyang, with competition from inter and Arsenal rumored, though he has stated his preference for the EPL.
    That plus a teamload of Frenchmen could’nt hurt.

    Another youngster apparently being persued by a number of EPL sides is Eriksen @ Ajax, who also have a decent defender available in Alderwiereld,not to mention Siem De jong, hell i would all or any of them, but i’m sure there are others in the market also, plus their prices are not bagain basement as were our last batch.

    There’s also been speculation on a try for Remy who is not about to play in the second tier, a proven goalscorer.
    His wage of around eight five grand a week is offputting, but could be offset by a cheap buyout clause, which i believe is in the neighberhood of four million ?
    I could be wrong about that.

    then we have the other French CD for around a mentioned ten million quid, who is on the cusp of the age limit @twenty seven, doubtfull.

    We could end up with Kelvin Wilson from Celtic, Balde a youngster with promise and Murphy from Crewe.

    A cheaper trio, more in Ashleys price range.

    Hell Ashley may have seen the light, who knows and breaks the bank.

    Hey there’s gonna be big bucks in the league for the next three seasons, around five billion to divvy up in total, so spend before the spending regulations take effect.

  133. Anyone else signed the petition demanding that IDS puts his (weasly) words into action and live on £53 per week for a year.

    I don’t know how may British forces were in Kenya but it would have to be one hell of a kill ratio per individual for over 300,000 casualties. Especially as most of the fighting was on the ground.

    On a football note, despite the (still) long injury list it looks like a lot of players may be coming off it soon.
    I assume many of them may have resumed normal training already.

  134. Grumpy@182
    There was a lot of trible and other killing to do with oath taking.Not all the deaths were down to us.

  135. Grumpy Old-Toon says:
    April 10, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    “Anyone else signed the petition demanding that IDS puts his (weasly) words into action and live on £53 per week for a year.”

    Well David Cameron couldn’t manage on his millions. He still had to claim Disabilty Living Allowance to support his disabled child.

  136. Again you are confusing the point in a defence of the indefencible, by comparing numbers as some kind of justification of a system which employed massive population roundups, concentration camps, where torture and killings were commonplace and included both men and women and children.
    And yes Elkins number or estimates are as worthy of belief as those who attempt to deny and cover up one of the most shamefull periods in British Colonial history.
    The fact is that no official figures or for that matter any records of that time period have been released by the British government.
    Which in turn makes one wonder why, what have they to fear after over fifty years of time.
    I noticed recently some Kenyans had attempted to sue the British government for reperations for their suffering during that period, could it be they dont want to pay these people or was the whole period so shameful it will reflect poorly on the UK as a whole.
    As a witness to the above NUTMEG who was sent there as a national serviceman and experienced it up front and personal, knows what i’m talking about, but you remain in denial, for some reason or other ?

  137. chuck says:
    April 10, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    “And yes Elkins number or estimates are as worthy of belief as those who attempt to deny and cover up one of the most shamefull periods in British Colonial history.
    The fact is that no official figures or for that matter any records of that time period have been released by the British government.”

    No they weren’t Chuck, because the methods used were completely flawed in comparison to other studies.

    And no, it isn’t a “fact” that there weren’t official estimates. The official estimates were around 12,000.

    That’s enough Mau Mau now. Subject closed!

  138. It’s been rumored HBA will play against Benfica, a miracules recovery, i doubt there was much wrong to begin with other than being way overweight.

    Otherwise why was he allowed to play in Russia, if his injury had’nt healed.

    As i often say, dont believe everything you hear or read.

    Now if he is to play, i hope it’s not at the expense of Marveaux, who has been playing well these last few games.

    Just nice to have the available choices for a change.

    Actually having been out for so long, i dont even know why he would be a choice sterter, unless they just want to give him some playing time, then pull him.

    I know Pardew has been spouting a lot of nonesense about being like Barca, all very good n all, but i doubt if he really thinks we can win this series, so whats to loose by giving HBA a run out, just one more guy he can blame it on if we loose.

  139. Chuck @187: I think it is in Ben Arfa’s contract that he must spend at least 6 months in Paris “recovering”, and to be fed a diet of only crepes and champagne. You don’t want him to get “depressed” like the poor little lamb Cabaye.

  140. Looks like he is becoming another Gosling (HBA)
    Now i know when he feels like it he can almost win a game single handed, problem is to get him in that frame of mind.
    I remember how SBR dealt with Robert, having begged, ordered pleaded, bribed even, to play a bit of defence.
    Was smart enough to realize better to have him entertaining and scoring goals, than have him do some half hearted defending.
    You gotta know your limitations some times, when it comes to managing people.
    There was another story concerning Bellamy who got into it at the airport with our now assistant manager, who is reputed to be an angry guy.
    (The chair throwing incident)
    Anyhow Bellamy was refusing to get on the plane, SBR put his arm around his shoulder and was talking to him about something completely different and before long Bellamy found himself sitting in his seat on the plane.
    now thats man management.
    I’m sure SBR was a sly old fox, who pretended or at his age possibly did forget some players names, but used this a a ruse in his man management system.
    I often wonder why youngsters have this notion that when you reach a certain stage in life, some kinda dumb gene kicks in that reduces you idiot level.

  141. Chuck: the classic Robson line was when Shola was asked what SBR called him and he replied “Carl Cort”. I don’t know if it was true, or Shola being funny?

  142. GS says:
    April 10, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    “Chuck: the classic Robson line was when Shola was asked what SBR called him and he replied “Carl Cort”. I don’t know if it was true, or Shola being funny?”

    I remember Shola saying it and I think it was.

    Other ones I can remember from Robson himself were:

    “Pep Gladioli” – Pep Guardiola (who played for him at Barcelona)

    “Sacha Distel” – Sylvain Distin

    “Lauren Bacall” – Laurent Robert

  143. Chuck, the trouble with politics is that it’s “politics”.

    Let me explain.

    Many a man has a brilliant theory. Marx, for example, was massive on getting people in the “working classes” into a position where they “governed society”, through collectivism or whatever was fashionable at the time (I know there’s more to it but I’m simplifying).

    The trouble is, the very people you give that power to become the monsters you thought you’ve got rid of. They tell us what to do, when, where and how.

    In every government, in every society, that’s what happens.

    We vote, we elect, and suddenly they’re barstewards. No matter who.

    There’s a sort of social determinism going on and breaking out of that is pretty much impossible, short of revolution.

    Sure, cast your vote. It means nowt.

  144. Hugh, Marx is one of the most brilliant men, but he’s also one of the most misunderstood. Whatever your politics are he is right that unfettered capitalism will collapse under it’s own weight, eventually.

    You can pretty much take it for granted that virtually any leader, especially nowadays, will be a amoral, mediocre bastard. They’re the ones who are attracted to that sort of thing so you inevitably get a choice between a Blair and a Thatcher, a Bush or an Obama. South Park put it best when they staged an election between a giant douche and a huge turd. What politics is really about is trying to ensure that these douches and turds do the least possible harm.

  145. Worky/ Hugh

    Yes i agree on both shorthand opinions, regarding Marxism.

    Unfortunately for the most part it has never really existed in the role as defined by Marx.

    Whether The Soviet Union, Maos China, Albania, Yougoslavia, and others.

    All very different versions of what they described as a Marxist Democracies.

    Pol Pot’s, Cambodia, had no relationship with Marxism and even went to war with so called Marxist Viet Nam.

    All highjacked for the most part by dictators, some genuinely with a benevolent vision, others concerned only with power.

    But none that could be said to be a state run on Marist principles.

    IMO the closest we came to a system that was successful was that brief period in Spain, prior too the Spanish civil war, until the defeat of the Republican government.
    And took place in mainly Catalonia.

    I’m talking about The Anarcho-Syndicalist movement (which still exists to-day in various places) which operated successfully, but had more problems from Republican Communists than Francos forces.
    Into which they became susumed eventually.

    However in the early days having taken over privately owned factories, and the means of production, they became for the most part worker owned and even ran more efficiently than under private ownership.

    A lesson that was’n lost on many.

    However, the so called western democracies, The UK & France, refused to help the then freely elected governmen, fighting a military revolt to re establish the catholic church, landowners and factory owners.

    Instead the Fascist goverments of Italy and Germany, had no such compuntions, both supplying troops and an air force to Franco.

    The fact that the Soviets were supplying the Republic, was based purely on self interest, but the fact the western democracies failed to intevene, led directly to WW11, which had they shown a bit more resolve may have been avoided.