Guest Blog: Evening Chronicle Misrepresented 56% of Fans New Survey Reveals

Posted on December 19th, 2012 | 63 Comments |

Alan Pardew smiling.
Pardew: 95% backing according to Lee Ryder.
Many thanks to “ToonBano” from the Toon blog for his third guest blog here – wt.

A couple of weeks ago, the Evening Chronicle asked fans to take part in what they called ‘The Big Toon Survey’ on how they felt about Newcastle United’s season thus far.

Many fans did as they saw it as a perfect opportunity to have their opinion heard and expressed. As the results of which were counted up and shown in a pie chart form of percentages, what followed the survey was not what they were expecting.

Chief Sports Writer of the Evening Chronicle, Lee Ryder, took it upon himself to write a follow up article regarding the survey’s findings and ran the story some of you may have already seen, ‘Alan Pardew backed by 95% of fans Chronicle Poll reveals‘. If you need reminding or are yet to see it then if can be found by following the link above.

Now as you read on from the highly suggestive headline you will see he goes on to write ‘And it has emerged that 95% of fans see Pardew as the man to lead Newcastle to the next level – with a tiny minority seeing the need for a change in management.’

If you were one of the fans who indeed took part in this survey, then you may have read this article opened mouthed, with a slightly puzzled grimace and an instinctive question burning on your mind of ‘nobody asked me whether I back Alan Pardew or not!’ Because as you may recall, whilst you were giving your answers to the various questions in the Big Toon Survey, that particular question was never asked at any stage. I should know, because I was one of them.

Now I for one, who filled in this survey with good faith and with the mentality that my voice and opinion about the club will at least be heard on some level, was a little bit shocked and taken aback about what this story was saying and suggesting. For a start nobody asked me whether I backed Alan Pardew at any stage during the survey and they certainly didn’t ask me whether I thought ‘he was the man to lead Newcastle to the next level’

The only question I or any of us were asked about Alan Pardew was ‘if I was happy with him’. There were 5 options to choose from for this, which were:

a) Very happy?
b) Content?
c) Content but wanting results to change?
d) Unhappy?
e) Time for a change?

I then gave my answer like the rest of you who filled it out. Under no circumstances was I under the impression that my answer would be taken in any other way then to show if I was ‘happy with Alan Pardew’. That’s it. That was the question and I gave my answer.

So you can imagine my shock as when I read this story claiming that 95% of fans who entered the survey ‘back’ Alan Pardew, that I am ‘right behind Alan Pardew’ and I think he is ‘the man to take us to the next level’ when nothing can be further from the truth. But what I actually think about him isn’t even the issue. The issue is taking fans’ answers to a question about happiness and then spinning it into a story about ‘backing’, ‘getting right behind’ and ‘believing’ in what Alan Pardew is capable of doing. Nobody asked me that. Did they ask you?

So moving on from this I took the opportunity to invite some of the fans who entered this ‘Big Toon Survey’ to enter one more survey and answer a few questions of my own. They were very straight forward and were a direct representation of the ‘results’ found in the Chronicle’s article. They were not designed to simply ‘disprove’ the surveys results and to score points. All I asked of the fans was to give their honest opinion and I would show the results for exactly what they were with no spin story to follow. The way it should be.

 NUFC fans. Now I stress not every single person who entered the Chronicle’s survey then also filled out this survey of mine. For me to get every person back involved is just not possible. For a start many would not know what my agenda was, or even who I was. However, a minority took the time to take part in this survey which is a clear and honest representation of some fans’ views and can be taken just as seriously as if every Toon fan had their say again.

The survey can be found here The Big Toon Survey – Survey and was made up of 10 questions with Yes, No or Undefined answers. There was also the opportunity to expand on your answer if you so wished. One big criticism of the Big Toon Survey were that the questions were ‘loaded’ with possible answers and could be manipulated one way or another depending on your own personal view. This survey does no such thing. You can find all of the questions, results and expanded answers which make fascinating reading on my ‘sister’ blog site that first created this survey at ‘Benny In The Hole‘. I would like to thank all those that took the time to take part and here are the findings:

The answers from the survey showed that 56% of fans felt that their answers to the Chronicle’s survey were misrepresented. Just 31% felt that they weren’t and 13% have an undefined opinion either way. To have more than half of the fans feeling like they have been misrepresented is a staggering amount from such a trusted source as their local paper. That isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement for how the Evening Chronicle carry out their practices or their reputation amongst fans.

When asked if the fans thought their opinion had been compromised by Lee Ryder’s article a massive 62% said ‘Yes’. 28% didn’t feel like it had and 10% had an undefined answer. For almost two thirds of the fans feeling like their opinion has been compromised by the Chief Sports Writer’s article says a huge amount about what they think about his sports reporting techniques. Most of the expansions of answers expressed say as much. Some accuse him of pandering to the club and manipulating the results to suit his own opinion. I will not go down that road personally but this view from others towards him doesn’t cry out as trusted journalism.

As the headline to the Chronicle’s article declared that 95% of fans back Alan Pardew, it seems only fair to ask them that very question. ‘Do you back Alan Pardew?’ was the fifth question in my survey and 54% of them declared ‘Yes’. Now I am confused. It was made aware to all of us that 95% of fans back Alan Pardew was it not? So why are only 54% saying that they do? Are they changing their minds? No they aren’t changing their minds, they’re simply expressing their opinion. At no stage were they asked whether they back Alan Pardew during the Big Toon Survey and if they were then around 54% would have answered ‘Yes’ if these minority of fans’ opinion is anything to go by. Its certainly more to go by then some loaded question about happiness. So if this doesn’t show the fans’ answers were manipulated and opinions were compromised I don’t know what will.

Alan Pardew looking frustrated. For a start, the term ‘backing’ Pardew can mean many things. Do you back his tactics? Do you back his philosophy? Do you back his line ups? If it is meant as a direct option of backing Pardew or sacking Pardew then that is a totally different question all on its own. Asking someone whether they ‘are happy with Alan Pardew’ and having one possible answer out of five being ‘time for a change’, then claiming that person ‘backs’ Alan Pardew off the back of it, is totally absurd. Basically a person who answered ‘Unhappy’ with Alan Pardew for that question has been placed in the ‘backing Alan Pardew’ column, directly competing against the ‘Time for a change’ column, as the source of justification for Lee Ryder’s article. It’s a fine example of outrageous manipulation at its best.

Arguably the most ridiculous content of Lee Ryder’s article was when he claimed it emerged that 95% of fans see Alan Pardew as the man to lead Newcastle to the next level. I didn’t know whether to laugh in disbelief or cry in anger at this ’emergence’. So basically I asked the fans very straight forwardly ‘Do you feel like Alan Pardew is the man to take Newcastle to the next level?’ 51% said No. That’s just over half that said categorically ‘No’ they don’t. With just 26% of people saying ‘Yes,’ this is way off Lee Ryder and The Chronicle’s claim. Which was only just above the 23% that have an undefined answer either way. I don’t know where this ’emergence’ as to how many fans think Pardew can lead Newcastle to the next level has come from because it’s certainly not in their survey. Pure fabrication that nobody can deny under any circumstances. Seeing as just a damning 10% of the fans agreed with Lee Ryders article conclusions in question 7 of my survey, I think that pretty much speaks for itself.

For the rest of the survey, 46% of fans said ‘No’ they didn’t wish they had never entered the survey in the first place, with 41% saying that ‘Yes’ they indeed wish they hadn’t. 49% of fans said ‘No’ they don’t want to have an apology from The Chronicle and Lee Ryder, with 38% saying that ‘Yes’ they would in fact like one. When asked if they will be entering The Chronicle’s next survey 41% said ‘Yes’ they will be, with 38% saying ‘No’ they will not. All in all the survey is pretty conclusive as to how the fans feel toward the Chronicle’s ‘Big Toon Survey’ and how the results were perceived. None of my questions’ possible answers were ‘loaded’ and at no point were the answers suggestive to one side or the other. Yes or No, it’s your choice, your opinion. If in doubt be ‘undefined’. If you wish to expand on your answer then do so. All of which is the way a survey should be.

I want this issue to be as fair and open as possible, so before I published this article I have been in touch with Lee Ryder asking him whether he would like to have his say on the matter. He pretty much declined the request and passed me onto other people. Even before my request we had already had an exchange which wasn’t anything special. The only thing he said to me with any meaning was that he read my stuff and respected my view (always nice to meet a fan at least), whilst defending his article by going off what he hears at away games and says there will be a new poll in the New Year. None of which refers back to this Chronicle survey or the issue at hand. But like I say, I gave him a chance and he chose not to take it.

I also got in touch with the person responsible for any queries with the survey at The Chronicle, which brought a better response thankfully. I let them know what I was going to publish and gave them the same chance to add their input. They have said they are unable to comment at the moment but will get back to me in the next day or two when the editor, Darren Thwaites is available and will hopefully make a comment on their behalf. I look forward to hearing what they have to say and it will be added to this matter in due time if received.

Now what drove me to write this article and to create this survey is not just down to what I felt from reading how the findings were written myself but what others like me have felt. You cant go anywhere regarding the Big Toon Survey being mentioned without negative comments. You only have to look at the comments sections of the article itself on The Chronicle website here. I would say 95% of them are negative and attack what has been written. The same can be said amongst Newcastle based websites such as’s article on it here, and what some nufc forums think about it here and here. It goes on and on…

Pardew smiling and pumping his little fist with glee. So taking all of this and everything else into account about what the fans think about this survey’s findings, it is clear to be seen as misrepresentation. Now as long as I have been a Toon fan there is one thing that is sure to get most fans backs up and that is when the national hacks and footballing media have these ideas and assumptions about Newcastle fans that simply aren’t true. They constantly announce things about us and our club to rest of the nation that simply don’t represent what fans actually think or believe. The Newcastle fans unrealistic expectations or God given right for a trophy being a couple that spring to mind. So when a local newspaper does such things, then that isn’t on. Not one little bit.

We have also all heard Sky and BBC alike make reference to some local surveys about this that and the other regarding our club. We get reminded every now and again that only 1.8% of fans thought Alan Pardew was the right man for the job after Chris Hughton’s sacking in 2010. Why should we stand for this latest poll to be used in the same way when it clearly isn’t true? It is clear 95% of fans don’t ‘back’ Pardew, whatever that actually means, so this gives off a false sense of reality amongst the Geordie public which can be taken wrongly by many. Even the manager himself.

If he reads that 95% of fans ‘back’ him then he may be influenced by this to stick to his guns and not change things he usually would if he felt the fans were turning on him. Spreading false messages can be a dangerous thing at times and for sake of what? Web page hits? Publicity? Propaganda? Why has Ryder written this article in the first place? What is his objective? The headline, which is usually decided by the editor, is clearly suggestive to grab your attention. The article actually written is just as bad if not worse. All of which is backed by nothing but spun and misrepresented answers to ‘loaded’ questions from their own survey.

I have suggested to The Chronicle and Lee Ryder himself that the best way to put this to bed would be to have a follow up article in which could/should involve two things

a) A new survey regarding their original survey and findings that is very similar to mine and:
b) An apology to the fans who feel misrepresented.

I cannot see why they would refuse to do so. I mean what have they got to lose? If they believe their story of ‘95%’ then the results of the new survey will show it. If they don’t, then an apology is the best thing they could do to try and gain back some reputation amongst the Newcastle fans. Because as it stands, the fans are not happy one bit. Whether the Chronicle and Ryder will or not is highly unlikely, which is a real shame.

Why let what the fans actually think get in the way of a story? It’s not like they are the ones who are going to be reading it…

Please feel free to take part in the the Big Toon Survey – Survey yourself to add to this article and to what has already been said, whether you have entered the Chronicles original survey or not. All answers are taken into account and any significant updates will be released in due time. All that is asked is that you are honest. Good luck. There is no time limit. ; D

Follow me on Twitter @ToonBano

Is Alan Pardew really backed by 95% of Newcastle United fans?


NUFCBlog Author: ToonBano Author of ToonBano Blog @ Also write and contribute to The Mag,, and here! ToonBano has written 6 articles on this blog.

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63 Responses

  1. ToonBano says:
    December 19, 2012 at 7:12 pm

    “I knew this article was big but it looks even bigger on here.

    Can this go down as ‘epic’….?”

    Bano, at one stage we had to alter the blog’s database to allow blogs this size to be posted. Back in the old days, anything over anout 1600 words just used to to vanish and wouldn’t display. This one’s over a 1000 words longer than that.

  2. Epic?

    Maybe a few words short of the The Iliad, but who’s counting?

    Solid article. Poll shows earlier was misleading…I love it! Homeboy’s a plank and we all know it!

  3. One thing Bano, you refer to the Chronic as a “local paper” but sadly there are few genuine local papers left.

    As I mentioned to you earlier, both the Chronic and the Journal belong to the giant Trinity Mirror media conglomerate like the Mirror, the Sunday Mirror and the People. “Newsquest” is another giant conglom which is ruining the local media and using their corporate might to either force takeovers, or drive them into non-existance.

    Such ownership completely changes the nature of the local press. You can see what the problem is in a very good piece written by Nico Johnson, the editor of an independent local title (the Purbeck Gazette) below.

  4. i would love to know what lee ryder’s game is, he definately has an agenda.
    whether he is trying to make a name for himself, and wanting to be controversial, because all publicity furthers him, good or bad.
    unless the bloke is towing the party line for his paymasters, who in turn could be answering to god knows who.
    either way that questionaire was a right load of cobblers, i took one look at it, and thought, no chance.

    when the results came out, judging by the absolute outrage of the comments, left in the chronicle’s website.
    the results of that questionaire, in no way gave a true representation, of the fans views.
    there were a couple of regular ashley apologists granted, but it was more like 95% anti pardew, looking at the comments left.
    so at the end of the day, the only way they could have come up with results like that, were through sheer manipulation, plain and simple!

  5. joe hawkins says:
    December 19, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    “so at the end of the day, the only way they could have come up with results like that, were through sheer manipulation, plain and simple!”

    Joe, one of the highlights is where people who voted that they were “unhappy” with Pardew were counted in with the “95% of fans who see Pardew as the man to lead Newcastle to the next level.”

    That isn’t just “manipulation,” it’s just plain lying. It’s such a pathetic attempt too that Ryder make himself look a complete and utter fool, a bit like “Aldridge Prior the hopeless liar” in the Viz.

  6. First of all, can you please change your “nom de plume”,
    as i cant help but think of it, in it’s Spanish translation, “toon bathroom”.
    Now on blogs this length i usually, cut to the quick, however i read every single word and have to congratulate you on your tenacity in following through.
    On a case that most of us believed was designed to result in a pre determined positive slant, that favors Pardew’s tenure as manager of NUFC.
    I wrote following the poll about how only people with an agenda, organize polls.
    For the most part filled with loaded questions.
    Which results in fullfilling the agenda of those who organize the poll.
    Yes folks, polls can do whatever is required of them, the results due to the way in which the questions are worded, could result in either positive or negative,
    whatever was required.
    So again thanks for your effort and you certainly have my backing in your aim to get to the bottom of things.
    Where i think you may find a combination of the NUFC PR department in combination with the Chronicle.
    I would’nt be surprised if that young wordsmith Lee Ryder
    (is that a nom de plume based on the Jeans maufactorer)
    ended up writing PR stuff for the club, he’s certainly
    applying himself and probably would fit well within the organization.

  7. Chuck says:
    December 20, 2012 at 2:59 am

    “Well perhaps some may consider that which he writes as porn”

    Er, I’m not sure about that Chuck. Comedy perhaps.

  8. GS says:
    December 20, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    “Not even Worky will have a fact file on that lot.”

    Oh yes I have! Good team. They’re about as strong as Bordeaux, only the away leg will be very grim.

    They’re fourth in the Ukrainian League League ATM, and they have some good Brazilians and Argentinians.

  9. you should know better GS..Worky has info on ALL things football related..thats why he has so many readers.

  10. Chuck – I am aware of what my name means in Spanish, or though I think ‘Toon Toilet’ is also acceptable…if you want to be really harsh. Bano is my name nickname, well one of them, in case you were wondering why I chose such a ‘nom de plume’.

    Worky – Aye I was a bit misty eyed by referring The Chronic as a local paper…what has the world come to these days.

  11. As far as this Europa draw is concerned:

    If you look at every other British teams draw in CL and EL we have the best of the lot for both sets of rounds overall.

    Plus Bordeaux have got Dynamo Kiev anyway so a trip to Ukraine was inevitable. 2nd leg at home would have been nice but I dont think Bordeaux next round draw (if they got through) has been that kind.

    Basically not one person associated with NUFC should complain for one second….I’m thinking of you Alan Pardew.

  12. i’ve heard of them before, have they been in the euro recently?, or are they rusty lol……………………………………………………………….. i’ll get me coat!

  13. joe hawkins says:
    December 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    “i’ve heard of them before, have they been in the euro recently?”

    UEFA Cup 2007/8 and 2008/9 Joe. They were eliminated by Everton and Dynamo Kyiv respectively.

  14. Meant to make a quick comment re: NUFC’s profit in the last available fiscal year, which is now a long rant. The accounts for the year ending June 2011 show an net profit (after tax) of 32.6m, with a change in cash flows of 19.9m. Profits are greater than cash flows for 2011 because expenses purchasing players and paying agent and signing on fees are spread throughout the length of a player’s contract (amortization), while player sales are recognized immediately. The accounts show that we got 31m in player sales and paid out 25.57m.

    Since June 2011, we have made major purchases in Santon, Cisse, and Anita, with some other minor in and outgoings. For simplicity, let’s pretend that the other players balance each other out. Together, those players represent a cash outflow of 25m. We also have SUBSTANTIALLY increased the wage bill. Ba, Cabaye(purchased in June 2011 and their wages would not have made much of a difference for the fiscal year ending June ’11), Cisse, Anita, and Santon are all among our second tier of wage earners I am sure (lower than Colo, higher than say Willo, Perch or Simpson). Let’s say they all make 50k a week. That’s 12.5m a year in wages for the five – 5 of our best players, that Ashley has bought in the last 18 months.

    I can’t remember what we made on the Virgin deal, but because ticket prices are frozen and the new TV deal hasn’t kicked in, we a net 25m outflow in transfers (probably more, Amalfatino, Bigi) and an extra 12.5m in wages (18 months for Ba and Cabaye, 14 for Santon, 11 for Cisse, 4 for Anita, averages 12 months of wages paid). Basically a cash outflow of about 35-40m over the last 18 months.

    Finally, there’s a lot written about Ashley’s 140m loan to the club. The loan is interest free and was made about 5 years ago. Ashley could have invested elsewhere and earned, say, 7%. With compounding, Ashley could have earned 56.35m over those 5 years with his 140m. That is his opportunity cost of leaving 140m of his wealth in the club, while not extracting money from interest or dividends (unlike Hall, Shepherd, etc.).

    Basically, return the blame to Mike Ashley! Also blame Pards. Let’s play attractive, passing football, even though we lack the MFs to pass it around. Cabaye and Tiote were absolutely CRUCIAL last term to us controlling midfield, and Guthrie played an important role as well when one of the others was unavailable. We actually have missed Guthrie a lot, so shame on Ashley for not investing in a replacement. What’s that? We bought Anita and signed Amalfatino on Carr’s recommendation? It’s taken time for Anita to settle and Amalfitano may have been a rare Carr mistake. Cabaye has been hopelessly off form, and Jonas has simply lost the steam to help out in the center of the park. Pards has opted for hoofball because we can’t pass the ball around – I have watched every minute, and we have often failed when we’ve tried, at least until the last few matches when Anita has finally been brought up to speed. Hoofball worked better under Hughton and early Pards, as Carroll and Bestie were MILES better at holding the ball up than are Cisse and Ba.

    While I again wrote WAY too much, I don’t think we can blame Ashley or Pards as much as people keep saying. The most important players from last term have been either missing or hopelessly off form – and remember, we really didn’t pass it that well last season either, except for the end of the year when HBA, Cabaye, Tiote, Cisse, and Colo were all on TOP form and available for selection. Add an improved Santon and a settled Anita to the mix with one more quality defender, and this team will finish comfortably mid table in the second half of the season. Rant over.

  15. chuck tut-tutting someone over the length of what they’ve written? Rich. I’m guessing he’s written more words on this blog than anyone other than worky since I’ve been here.

    Thing is, this time he’s pretty much completely right. Even if it were true that 99% of toon supporters love this guy, it wouldn’t change my opinion.

  16. FSS: I can make no sense of what you wrote and basically stopped paying attention after you added up 3M (Santon), 6.2M (Anita) and 8M (Cisse) and somehow got 25M rather than 17.2M. You also describe “minor” outgoings. Best and Forster were 4M between them and reaching back to Cisse is flying way too close to the sun as you’re simply reminding us of the 35M gotten for Carroll.

    I’ve gone through all our trading since Ashley came in over and over again. In terms of budget for the squad, between players sold and trimmed wage bill (I only think in those terms because the admin told me to do so) there has been 100-200M added to this club’s revenue streams. We have 2 players on the roster that cost more than 5M and were bought in the last 5 years.

  17. tunyc: Cisse supposedly cost 10m (, Anita was 8.5 euros (about 7m pounds) and Santon 5.3m (from wikipedia). I’m not sure how much to trust the media numbers, but from those numbers it’s actually about 22.3m. Apologies, I went from memory, although I was off by less than 3m, not almost 8m as you claim.

    Also, Colo cost about 10m. The wage bill has declined from its peak, but the club’s annual revenue was 88m in the last reports (available on this very blog:, so I’m not sure how that equates to 100-200m added to revenue streams. Finally, 4m for Forster and Best is great, but we don’t get the full 4m. You have to subtract agents fees. Also, we bought Bigi, Good and signed Amalfitano (agents fees and signing bonus).

  18. Free Scoring Smudge says:
    December 20, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    “tunyc: Cisse supposedly cost 10m”

    FSS, He cost around £7.5 million rising to £9 million according to the most reliable sources, certainly not £10 million as many people speculated. Graham Carr said £8 million in one interview but that was probably just a vague “ball park” figure.

    You’re other message requires a short essay in response and I don’t have time ATM thanks to work, blogging and the agonies of Christmas!

    Was Colo £10.9 million? Not totally sure.

  19. one thing is for sure, we will have to go a few goals up, because the return leg will be a nightmare.
    it will probably be 30 below zero, by the time we rock up.
    apparently it’s a nice friendly place, where the local judge and his family, have been found beheaded.

  20. joe hawkins says:
    December 20, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    “it will probably be 30 below zero, by the time we rock up.”

    Even that Beefy the superfan will need a T-Shirt out there Joe.

    “apparently it’s a nice friendly place, where the local judge and his family, have been found beheaded.”

    It’s a bit like Northern Ireland with “the Troubles” over there. There are two types of Ukrainians, Russian imports who were shipped in by Stalin who are fiercely loyal to Mother Russia and then there are proper Ukrainians who hate loathe and detest the Russkies with very good reason after the great starvation (which was as bad as the Holocaust) and many other things. Kharkiv is Ukraine’s second city and is in the heartland of the Russkiest part near the Russian border.

  21. tunyc
    In regard to 28#
    no i read the whole magilla, but have to admit to mentioning his user name, was, lets say, unusual!

    And i suppose you are right, in that few of my rants could be described as brief.

    I see the bean counters have like zombies arisen from the dead and are once again terrorising us with numbers few of us simple folks understand.

    If you are going to use Americaism’s.
    All “ballpark figures” are vague.
    As opposed to “In the ballpark”, which is considered reasonably accurate.

    Toon Bano @22#
    OK by me.

  22. Grumpy Old-Toon says:
    December 20, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    “Metalist good team, be hard!”

    They have some good Argetinian internationals and Brazilians too Grumpy. I’m just typing up the results of my probe and some bits will be fairly scary.

  23. chuck says:
    December 20, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    “I see the bean counters have like zombies arisen from the dead and are once again terrorising us with numbers few of us simple folks understand.”

    Chuck, well I do and it’s a bit deceptive, like Ashley and Llambias themselves. One example; FSS puts alot of emphasis on the wages of players coming in, yet he doesn’t mention anything whatsoever about the wages of the players who have left the club. It’s designed to bamboozle people, but it doesn’t bamboozle me, I just don’t have time to respond to it yet because I’m probing Metalist Kharkiv ATM.

    chuck says:
    December 20, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    “All “ballpark figures” are vague.”

    Well Carr’s figure was “vague” too so why are you chuntering again you old grouch?

  24. Grumpy Old-Toon says:
    December 20, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    Worky, Kenny Jackett probed yet?

    Not yet Grumpy, I’m probing one of Metalist’s top players ATM, Taison. He’s a winger who can also play as a forward who cost around £13-14 million from Internacional in Brazil. He was also linked with Chelsea at one stage. He’s a remarkable player like Benny.

  25. worky: Your wages point is exactly what I’m on about with the 100-200M figure. People say we got 35M for Carroll-actually, including wages we didn’t have to pay, we got 45-52M depending on who’s numbers you believe.

    FSS-don’t get me wrong, I actually agree with you and worky that we have a good squad. The quality of our players is not the root of our current struggles.

  26. Soh! how many heading to NW Ukraine, i would suggest you bring some heavy weather gear as you can expect near freezing temperatures.
    Appears Metalist are a decent side, with a few good imports.
    How come places like Russia and Ukraine, are able to sign Brasilians and Argentinos, but we have no scouting system in one of the worlds most productive areas for producing footballers.
    Is it because even though the like Mascherano and Tevez, top international players, they were made to sit
    on the bench by people like Pardew.
    Seems to be a thing with him, HBA, Santon, Marveaux.
    Ah well, be interesting to see who he lines up for the trip to Ukraine.

  27. tunyc says:
    December 20, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    “worky: Your wages point is exactly what I’m on about with the 100-200M figure. People say we got 35M for Carroll-actually, including wages we didn’t have to pay, we got 45-52M depending on who’s numbers you believe.”

    Basically, he’s echoing the same kind of deceptions Ashley and Llambias use to bamboozle fans. That stuff about how Ashley’s interest free loan was some kind of great magmanimous gesture where he could have made alot more elsewhere is pure guff. The club will have to pay off the debt he inherited from Shepherd one way or another and yet he still whinges about it, and he’s getting tax advantages too. Nothing about the free Sports Direct sponsorship or Sports Direct’s role in the club’s merchandising either.

    GS, I’ve just been a humble businessman in the past, you should our real financial expert?

  28. Enough already with the f***ing beancounting !
    Before you drive eveybody nut’s

    Dont pretend you did’nt get it.
    You stated a vague “ballpark figure”
    The vague is redundant as all ballpark figures are vague.
    Unlike “in the ballpark”, which signfies close.
    I suggest you stick with your local lingo.

  29. worky, so it’s a bit like estonia, where the ethnic estonians hate the russians immigrants, left over from the soviet days.

    that draw today was like amateur half hour, surely they could have come up with a different system, for drawing the teams.
    i was half expecting jasper carrott to jump out and say, dont open that one, there’s a killer in there.
    the whole thing was f**kin’ laughable, with all those jars, and the little gadgie having to take balls from one pot to the other.
    it was like blue peter, “here’s one i made earlier”.
    the french bloke was hilarious, doing his bit for tourism, fenerbache, istanbul, nice place to visit, as long as you avoid the stabbings.
    it was up there with the eurovision song contest, for cringeworthyness.

  30. i just took a look on sky sports,” the silver gobs***e” is saying he’s powerless to stop deba ba leaving, if someone coughs up the wedge.
    if he does leave, i dont think pardew will be far behind him, if i’m being honest.
    demba ba is probably the only player keeping owld soppy bollox, in the hotseat.
    one big mistake from pardew’s point of view, unless they can bring a more creative player, to go up alongside papis cisse, and revert him back to where he was playing, last season.

  31. s**t using a different search engine, which was displaying my old moniker, oh well, i’ll have a conflab wi mesel.

  32. worky and tunyc:

    I agree that Cisse could well be 8m (or less) – the numbers are always going to be approximate because we don’t know the true values. It’s further complicated because the money paid for a player does not equal the money received by the selling club due to agent’s fees. If you look at 2011’s accounts, we received 31.6m in player sales, although Carrol was supposedly paid for up front. Could that missing 3.4m be for agent’s fees? It’s almost exactly 10% of the sale price. Basically, the transfer fee varies depending on which club’s perspective that you take.

    As for wages, I was using the 2011 accounts, which closed in June. Carroll was sold halfway through that fiscal year, and he had been on a youth contract for a portion of that time. I am making an assumption (possibly incorrect) that the incoming players make more than the outgoing ones. Compare Marveaux, Ba, and Cabaye with Best, Lovenkrands, and Forster. Marveaux and Cabaye were first choice players in the French league, Cabaye is a French international, and Marveaux came on a Bosman (inflated wage demands). Forster was a youth player for us, Loven was out in the wind before we called, and Best was playing for a championship club. I don’t think there’s any attempt to bamboozle; the wage bill has likely risen substantially. I guess we’ll see soon enough when 2012’s accounts are released.

  33. Tunyc: I would rather focus on the bigger picture. I see us as a mid-table club because we have a mid-table revenue. TV is by far the biggest source and that is roughly the same for all clubs (I know there are appearance payments). Gate receipts are much less important now. Also, it seems Ashley is effectively skimming merchandise sales and directing the profits to Sports Direct – I don’t know quite how he is doing it, but I think he is.

    How can we compete with Man U when they have over 400 million in revenue? They also have a worldwide “brand” whilst we are now being associated with tat.

    I see it when I watch a match here in the pub. There will be 30 Arsenal fans whereas it will be me and the odd stray Geordie. I only ever see one American in there who supports NUFC.

    We either need a super-smart manager like Ferguson or some investment in the team or we will continue to be irrelevant at best or even fighting relegation.

  34. Free Scoring Smudge says:
    December 20, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    “I agree that Cisse could well be 8m (or less) – the numbers are always going to be approximate because we don’t know the true values.”

    Cisse was £7.5 million rising to £9 million conditional. I’m quite sure about that.

    One thing I’m not quite as sure about, but I do recall hearing vaguely was that the Carroll deal was £30 million + £5 million conditional on other stuff?

    “If you look at 2011′s accounts, we received 31.6m in player sales”

    I’m afraid I can’t see that figure anywhere FSS. There is a “profit on disposal of players’ registration” figure of £36,784,000, which is the one that indicates the transfer income from players sold.

    “Compare Marveaux, Ba, and Cabaye with Best, Lovenkrands, and Forster. Marveaux and Cabaye”

    This is just getting silly now FSS. Alan Smith, Joey Barton, Kevin Nolan, Jose Enrique and so on… Carroll was on a new MUCH improved contract before Ashley sold him too.

  35. GS says:
    December 21, 2012 at 12:27 am

    “Also, it seems Ashley is effectively skimming merchandise sales and directing the profits to Sports Direct – I don’t know quite how he is doing it, but I think he is.”

    That one has been bugging me for ages but it’s opaque. The thought started germinating in my mind because the figures just looked a bit wrong to me and also the online shop became “NUFC Direct” and the shop site was Sports Directified with all the “Free Mainland UK delivery if you spend over £65*” and “24 hour delivery available only £4.99!!!” bits in exactly the same places as they are on the Sports Direct webshite. Of course, there’s also been a massive increase in the amount of complete tat being sold in there too. Then the thing about SD taking over Rangers’ merchandising came out, which is less opaque.

    “I only ever see one American in there who supports NUFC.”

    It’s a good job you aren’t in NYC, otherwise it could be Chuck! :lol:

  36. TROJAN RECORDS 73 says:
    December 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    “worky, so it’s a bit like estonia, where the ethnic estonians hate the russians immigrants, left over from the soviet days.”

    It’s a bit like alot of places Trojan Joe, including many of the old Soviet republics like Ukraine and Estonia and my previous example, Northern Ireland. It’s an old trick that goes back through history.

  37. There’s absolutely nothing whatsoever in this story to back it up, though the Mirror group is Llambias’ favourite media company.

    Toon Rem-edy: Newcastle agree £10m Remy deal.. as Ba prepares to leave

    But there was a bit of vandalism on Remy’s Wikipedia entry saying that he’d already signed for Newcastle. Surely it hasn’t come from that?

  38. Demba Ba has scored more goals than the rest of the team combined. But of course, it’s all his fault that we are where we are and has nothing to do with the people who negotiaited his contract, Derek Llambias and Lee Charnley, or the man who has played the kind of football Reading played in the 90s for nearly the whole season so far.

    Did they really think they were just going to get him on a free and pay him half what equivalent strikers get without some kind of quid pro quo? When players sign on a free, they usually get more wages, not less.

    Alan Pardew also made a bit of a song and dance about the fact that Ba and Obertan were his signings too, and not a Graham Carr discovery.

    Oops! Hang on, sorry. He’s blaming Demba Ba AND the Europa League and in this one.

  39. I wish AP would make up his mind about stuff like whether or not it’s good to be in the Europa League and whether or not the squad is big enough…

    …and take responsibility for ANYTHING…

    …and change tactics…

  40. Just a quick update: I left the survey open for anyone to take part after the initial results from specific people I happen to contact.

    The results have changed slightly.

    The fans who felt represented went up from 56% to 65%. Which is huge really. I was not expecting 2/3’s.

    The fans who felt their opinion was compromised by Ryder’s article was 71%. Huge.

    All the rest and everything else is on here:

    I wont be publishing any more stuff on this. I’m done with now I promise.

    ……..although I am in contact with the press complaints commission. : D