Top players are expensive Alan, get used to it

Posted on August 14th, 2012 | 85 Comments |

Alan Pardew - Newcastle United.
Pardew: No sense of irony.
Alan Pardew, the manager of the club who turned down £30 million for Andy Carroll, and insisted on £35 million “upfront” (plus “12 grand ****ing interest”) for a player the club’s Managing Director later said was worth “**** all,” has blamed Newcastle United’s lack of success in the transfer market on greedy clubs such as Ajax, Lille and FC Twente for valuing their players too highly once they know that big clubs such as Newcastle United are interested in their prize assets. He also pointed the finger at greedy agents and players too.

As well known Daily Mail bigot, Richard Littlejohn, is rather fond of saying, you couldn’t make it up!

The Silver Supremo was asked a remarkably stupid and inaccurate question about why the transfer market has taken so long to get going. Premier League clubs have brought in no less than sixty nine players as of yesterday. That is an average of 3.45 players per club so far, with hundreds of millions changing hands in fees alone, even though it is well known that much of the activity in the English window often happens towards the end.

But before I continue, let’s take a look at Pardew response to this silly question, which seems to be lacking the slightest trace of irony:

“It’s valuation. Not just by the players themselves, but by the clubs and the agents. This is the big problem we have as managers and also chairmen in the Premier League. The valuation agents are putting on their player is far, far too much. They need to understand that times have changed.”

Do they, Alan? Most of the major players that Newcastle have been chasing weren’t transfer listed by their clubs when their heads were turned, so if Newcastle United refuse to pay the going rate for them, they can either keep them, or they always have the option of selling them to clubs with a more realistic outlook, as Twente did with Newcastle target Luuk de Jong when they sold him to Borussia Mönchengladbach.

But anyway, Pardew continued on a more optimistic note, and also kind of washed his hands of the business end of things, which are a matter for Derek Llambias and club secretary, Lee Charnley. He continued:

“Am I hopeful something can be done? I think it is touch and go, really. There are one or two things that might happen. Obviously, that’s not my department. I have targeted the players and we hope they arrive, but if they don’t then I do believe we still have a very strong side that will go in against Tottenham. You ask any Premier League manager, outside of Chelsea probably, and they will say the same thing. Even Manchester United haven’t done much business. Nobody else has really. I think everyone is biding their time before pitching in. However, I do think the ball will roll this week and there will be players joining Premier League teams for sure.”

Let’s take a look. As well as the things I mentioned earlier in this piece, despite the recession, Premiership clubs are earning more in broadcasting revenue than ever before and prices have never been higher. This goes for Newcastle as much as it does for any other clubs, many of whom are far smaller and have to work with a far lower budget. That does not go for clubs such as Ajax, Lille and Twente however, who’s broadcasting revenue from Ligue 1 and the Eredivisie is tiny by comparison, though Ajax and Lille will have Champions League football, they still have to constantly sell their finest assets to clubs in richer leagues such as the Premiership to keep their heads above water.

Looking in more detail at the sixty nine Premiership transfers Pardew seems to have missed, and omitting the moneybags Chelsea example which Pardew excempted from his sweeping generalisation, West Ham have brought in no fewer than eight players so far, Queens Park Rangers and Reading have brought in six each, West Bromwich have brought in five, Pardew’s predecessor, Chris Hughton, has brought in four at Norwich, as have Aston Villa and Southampton. Arsenal, Fulham, Stoke, Swansea and Wigan have brought in three. The example Pardew cited as “not having done much business,” Manchester United, have spent £18.75 million so far on Shinji Kagawa and Nick Powell, with Liverpool, Everton and Tottenham also on two. Finally, Blunderland have been lagging behind having only brought in a single player so far, though of course, there is still time yet, just as there is for Newcastle United.

Looking at some specific examples, Luuk de Jong was valued at around £11.5 million (and rising) by German football transfer website, Transfermarkt, when Newcastle were making a move for him. Whilst Newcastle United were huffing and puffing over Twente’s outrageous overvaluation and chuntering about not being held to ransom for transfers, he was sold for the extortionate fee of around £11.8 million to German side, Borussia Mönchengladbach, a team who can’t afford to spend as much as Newcastle.

On the seemingly never ending saga of Lille’s Mathieu Debuchy, he is valued at around £9.7 million by the same site, though despite still having three years left on his contract, Lille’s Chairman, Michelle Seydoux, who didn’t to sell the player in the first place with another Champions League campaign to fight this season, graciously allowed the player to go if Newcastle would agree to pay a mere £6.3 million for the French International. Newcastle United’s original bid for him was a derisory one of around £3.9 million. Eventually, they did reluctantly up this £4.7 million after Seydoux mentioned that they would accept £6.3 million after his head has been well and truly turned by Newcastle, not least by his friend and ex Lille teammate, Yohan Cabaye. This is the same Cabaye who Lille were forced to sell to Newcastle for a mere £4.8 million when he was worth around double that thanks to an outdated release clause in his Lille contract. He is now estimated to be worth around £14.5 million.

I could go on with several other examples, but I’ll spare you that as this piece is long enough already! In conclusion though, writing as a Newcastle United fan who spends many hours poring over NUFC related stuff for the sake of this ‘blog, I must say that this pathetic playing the victim routine has become more than a little tedious to say the least, especially so when the managing director brags in such a crude fashion about how “____ing horrible” he and the owner can be in business. If Mike Ashley, Derek Llambias and Alan Pardew can’t stand the heat of running a top level club, they should get out of the kitchen and stop blaming everyone else, whether it is previous owners from over five years ago, or the other clubs they have aggressively laid siege to. Either that or cut their cloth accordingly and just be content with cheaper players.

NUFCBlog Author: workyticket workyticket has written 1091 articles on this blog.

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85 Responses

  1. Terrible article that amazingly misses the point, I can’t believe I read the first half of that.

    Time to block on newsnow so it doesn’t happen again.

  2. I think its a bit unrealistic to compare us to other teams as it simply doesnt work that way, each team have their own circumstances. Chelsea and Arsenal can both afford to spend big and need to improve on last year’s performance so it makes sense that they have bought in some players. The likes of West Ham are coming from a lower division and therefore obviously need to strengthen, i dont think i would take any of their 8 signings btw. We find ourselves in a very unique situation on the back of a very good season, having not lost any of our key players. We need to continue the good work of balancing the books whilst bolstering our squad if and when we find good value in the market. We dont need big changes, if our team is fully fit then we would be facing clubs with a good team that was successful last year and this is without any extra additions!

  3. Personally, Worky – I think they are doing a great job.

    They finished 5th, got into the Europa Cup and brought in Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Ba, Marveaux, Santon and Cisse. Most of that was basically covered by stitching up the Bindippers with Carroll.

    Even more impressive when you consider that Nolan, Smith and Barton are also off the books and the club is heading for financial stability for the first time in decades.

    And they’ve achieved all of this while shopping around for the bargains and not spending big money on high profile players.

    Contrary to what you say above, you do not have to spend big money to get good players.

    Unfortunately, Pardew has been rumbled. His success has alerted other teams to our ability to identify quality and that is pushing the prices up, just as they did when they thought we had money to burn

    What you really want to be asking is, if Ashley does the deal with Rangers, and the Toon will be able to loan them up to 9 players, what effect will that have on our squad depth?

  4. Dreading when the ACON comes around, only Shola up front, and lacking depth in midfield after selling Guthrie, surely they’re going to pull their thumbs out and pay the extra coin and land a few players

  5. and thats why MA is a billionaire,cisse cost 9 million and your writing a blog that no one can be arsed to read through.

  6. Joe,we will have Ba and Cisse up front during ACN, have you forgot about them.?

  7. Anybody who thinks we have enough players to compete in all our competitions is being very optimistic. Last year we were lucky with our injuries. This year could be different. The bench is just not good enough, you also have to have competition for starting places. You always have to have the ambition to be better than the previous year…
    NUFC have a strict transfer policy, good, but stumbling over a price of £6.3 million for Debucy is going to far. I think it’s a reasonable price.

  8. Articles like this really make my blood boil. The solution is so simple isn’t it? All we need to do is pay whatever other clubs want for players all the time and then we’ll be sorted! Lets just ignore that in the past this philosophy brought us Martins, Owen and Xisco, (not to mention bleeding the club dry almost sending us into administration) whereas our current policy of sticking to our guns and seeking out bargains on the market brought us Cabaye, Cissé, Ba, Tiote, Ben Arfa and Krul, who this time last year were collectively “valued” at less than Downing.

    If we’d shelled out this time last year and bought the players us fans were hoping for (Sturridge, Erdinc, Gervinho etc) we probably would not have finished 5th. The lesson here is that sometimes even the most devoted fans don’t know what’s best for the club.

  9. Joe – Apparently we wont be screwed by the ACON this year, cant remember if its because its every 2 years, or if Senegal didn’t qualify, but I read somewhere that we dont have to worry about it.

  10. Regarding ACON there’s a play-off between Senegal and Ivory Coast where only one will progress. So we will either be without Ba and Cisse or Tiote, but not all three.

  11. Yeah, i’m sorry but this website needs to be addressed in terms of “voice”

    why are we convinced of a conspiracy and why does there always need to be articals that complain?

    come on, write something happy.

  12. ‘..come on, write something happy..’

    Mike, how about:

    ‘I decided not to write anymore’ workyticket

  13. Gt to love the ashley fans who come on here like always talkin bout how they love there owner being tight cos we end up wif Owen type players if he spends big ha short memory lads cos you never mention shearer r tino Robert etc I know we cant spend big now bt enough wif the butt kissin and talkin bout how we were headin for administration lol u do not know tht u believe there is a difference also the article makes a gd point we sell our players for top dollar bt expect to buy cheap , this will annoy teams and of course they wont be offerin us bargains y would they ?

  14. I don’t see why Mike Ashley should be bound to pay what a german website decides various players are worth.
    If it emerged in a few years time that Mike was taking his business strategy from one foreign website Worky would be up in arms saying this was proof at last that Ashley is a moron.
    He plays a hard game. Remember how livid we all were that he refused to cough up for a striker on deadline day last season, because he’d “only” brought Ba in. Then as a little treat he brings in Cisse for £9M (Graham Carr says it was closer to £8M!)

    Surely the cost of our current ‘stars’ (Ba = £0, Cisse = £9M, Cabaye = £4.5M, Tiote = £3.5M) proves the very opposite of your headline. It makes plain that top players are not neccessarily expensive, and thus Pardew has no need to ‘get used to it’

  15. worky – i appreciate that you’re passionate in your belief that Ashley should stick to running a sports shop ’empire’.

    however – you simply cant deny that we’re in a better state financially now than we’ve ever been (and i am a supporter of 45 years standing). You’ve simply got to give credit where its due.

    we negotiate strongly – it would appear thats because we can pay cash up front – not players on up to seven years ‘tick’. we wont pay over the odds – and when the asset is ‘depreciated’ – we need to ensure that there’ a sell on value.


    importantly, though, – we’re ahead of plan. If we finish top 6 this coming season we’re still ahead of plan.

    personally – i’m glad that we dont do ‘football pc manager’ and spunk a load of wedge up the wall on players who are poorly considered.

    we have a good team spirit and play the game as if we enjoy it. we have a good manager and backroom squad – and a good first team pool – with good youngsters to come. Personally i’d rather blood some of them (a la campbell) – than buy Julio Geordio from Brazil or some such

  16. Good article which highlights Pardew still needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut if he doesn’t want to sound like a twonk. None of the players who we’ve shown proper interest (bids) have been priced unreasonably, in fact I’d put money on the price of De Jong and others rising in valuations in seasons to come. If we don’t sign Debuchy it will be very sad, as player wants to go, fans want him to come, and his price is fair. He would always have been a slight exception for Newcastle because he already has good standing and is older than we wo ideally like, but Lille don’t seem unreasonable in there demands. Is it possible it was always designed to be a win win bluff – we get him dirt cheap or show other clubs we won’t pay the market value regardless of our want/need thus helping to lower price on players like Anita?

  17. The rationalizers are out in force today. (Sock puppets? Several names I’ve never seen before anyway…) As are, once again, those who have been coerced to read this blog. Poor lambs.

    Uh-huh. We shouldn’t compare ourselves with other PL clubs. What sort of nonsense is that? They are, literally, our competition. Also, once again, some are suddenly looking at our squad and seeing enough quality in depth to manage a league and up to three simultaneous cup campaigns. Huh? All I see is the specter of Perch or Simpson in the middle of defense and relying on Shola for-how long exactly?-if the Dembas go the African Cup.

    To put a different spin on this: this squad is in need of strengthening and excuses won’t help with that come 1 September. As worky says: negotiate realistically (and to be fair, none of knows what’s really going on these negotiations) or move on to cheaper targets. We need the bodies in the squad. Now.

  18. We are not in an undeniably better state financially, but continue to believe that if it helps you sleep at night.

    NUFC’s debt is now higher than when purchased by Ashley, and we get nothing for stadium naming rights. Things aren’t worse, and the fiscal policy we have is more conservative-but whether or not it’s too conservative to secure reasonably good results on the field is precisely what’s being debated here. One season-one-under Ashley has gone really well. Can we do it again? For me, if we have a run where Simpson and Perch are starting at CB again-I have to say that I doubt it.

  19. Sounds like we got a bunch of Llambias clones here.
    Most who it seems think the predatory business practices of Ashley and his pit bull sidekick Llambias, as some new way of doing business.
    To first unsettle players , followed by low ball bids and when they dont get their way, planting stories about greedy clubs, payers and agents.
    And of course it’s taken by certain gullible fans as fact.
    Who then mention only those who in the past turned out to be poor buys, never mentioning the Ginolas, Roberts, Shearers, Nobbys, etc.
    We have been lucky in the market lately, but it could’nt continue, Cabaye happened to have a buy out clause, which we exploited, Ba cost around £5m, whie most believe he was a free agent and other clubs were leary of his knee problem.
    We got Marveaux cheap, when L’Pool turned him down because of a dodgy knee and has yet to prove he can pay a full season.
    HBA was known as an enfant terrible in France, causing trouble at former sides Lyon and Marseilles, who were happy to offload him as no one but ourselves had shown interest.
    Cisse who we made enquiries about, but were put off at the time by a £15m.pricetag, was sold in a panic move by his German club who thought they were about to be relagated, for a reduced price of around £8m., yes a bargain, but even then it appears Ashley (who some missinformed contributers here seem to think walks on water, when it comes to dealmaking) had to be convinced it was in fact a deal.
    And yes there were players uncovered by our head coach, Tiote being one, but For the most part, the above deals will not become a regular accurence.
    Top level football has few surprises concerning players and they are all evaluated, each having his price.
    Ashley and his cohorts will learn, they like every other club, will have to either cough up the asking price or close too it depending on the selling clubs circumstance, or miss out on buying good players.
    Ashley and Co. have no lock on making deals and had better get used to it.
    As for those who worry about him spending money, perhaps you should be more concerned by the indirect increase in
    the price of your ticket, that you thought was locked in for a number of years (talking about the membrship fee which can and probably will rise on an annual basis)

  20. worky, keep it up, we all need honesty, and it’s seems in short supply, at barrack rd.
    the same thing was occurring this time last season, with pardew talking constant soundbytes and jingoism and propaganda.then when the window slammed shut with another fruitless window, and he was ritually hung out to dry, yet again, by the gruesome twosome.
    he went away in the huff, well apparently it was a scouting mission.
    he then turned up again, looking desperate on the touchline, and if sunderland had of took their chances early on, who knows, it could have all turned out differently, but he got away with it.
    he then went on to sabre rattle for england, but when newcastle were bad they were bad, and we took some right hidings aswell.
    my opinion of ashley has not changed, he is still a gambler,who wants to run things on the cheap, and if it comes off for him, like last season, he was classed as some kind of genius.
    if it doesn’t come off, then so what, he has no standing with the fans anyway, so it’s no skin of his nads.
    his modus operandi has not changed one bit for me, it’s keep the coach in the dark, because there is no manager at newcastle now, keep the squad short, and make unrealistic bids for players, to keep the fans happy, and sell season tickets.
    he then goes out and signs three or four youngsters for next to nowt, who get foisted onto the coach without his say so, under the premise of them being for the future.
    the reality is though that the coach has no option but to throw them into the first team, as there is no one else.ashley then hopes these kids will make him a few bob, within the next 18 month.
    they are still a couple of chancers who are more like back alley muggers,looking to hit people over the head, for a deal.
    then then try to make one decent signing, then that is normally offset by a big hitter going the other way, for way more than the new player coming in.
    as was said in the media last season,”they signed cheick tiote for a cheap price, and have now become obsessed with creating the perfect cheap deals, for themselves”.
    we will get the same drivel though, judge them at the end of the window, how long have we been saying that for?
    for me, they have got themselves into a good postion, but it was always going to be, that they would become victims of their own scam, if you like.
    they were able to operate within a cheap budget, as a lot of clubs knew of their so called financial situation.
    once they sold carroll, and the bank balance was looking far healthier, they were still quibbling over prices, and trying any shady tactics, to get the price down.
    i’m sure these idiots live in fantasy land, clubs will value their players, if messrs ashley and llambias, come in with derogatory bids, they have no chance of getting them.
    regardless whether them two think they are hard done by, ffs all clubs know the game, and how it works.
    they are at a crossroads now, they either put up, or shut up, they cannot keep on with dick turpin crap, as we will not get away with it for too long.
    if not, stick your five year buy a box to buy the club crap, and get out, and let someone have the club, who wants to do something with it.
    saying that, he’s that lucky of a gambler, he’ll probably get away with it again, this season.
    if you want to run a club on a shoestring, and be the big man in a small pond, then go and buy rangers, lock, stock and barrel.

  21. @Toonfann et al,

    call me a “butt kisser” if you like but the difference between you and me is I can see when the glass is half full. If we had finished 15th last season you and all the other moaners would be spouting exactly the same script. “We need to spend big to take us up the table” We finished fifth and you’re essentially saying “we need to spend big to keep us up the table”

    I want Newcastle to do well as much as the next person, but more importantly I don’t want Newcastle to become another Leeds united or Portsmouth, spending beyond our means to win silverware/break into the champions league. We have to play a shrewder game than that.

    PS: I’m glad you mentioned Shearer, one of the greatest ever English footballers, born and raised in Newcastle, who was turned down by our scouts but then won the title with Blackburn, so we ended up breaking the British transfer record to sign him went we could have had him for free. That’s a good transfer policy to you is it?

  22. What I read here is that if we want to sign Debuchy, just as if we had really wanted De Jong, we need to spend the amount that’s on the price tag and not try to endlessly haggle for a cheaper price.

    From the little I know, I would be willing to go the full distance on Debuchy. I think he would settle in quickly and well, being surrounded by players he knows and who speak his language. He would also really help to solidify our defence.

  23. paul in h, exactly, if they say,value him at six million, then pay it.
    ashley’s a gambler, if debuchy has a good season, he could be worth 12 million at the end.
    well worth the risk imo.

  24. Andy u jumped the gun there I never mentioned our current transfer policy ppl wor talkin bout past buys which is what I did also pointin out we shouldnt expect bargains , I actually agree wif wat we do now but also think tht if u plan on buyin cheap u should have alternative targets incase the sellin club dislikes u ,cos of the cabaye clause, if he is our only target at fullback because he is so gd no 1 else is worth chasing then surely a extra mil is worth it ? We seem to have a few gd targets bt our squad is so thin shouldnt there b a plan b and c tht the scouts have already put in place rememberin tht its spurs this wkend

  25. numptyandmuppet says:
    August 14, 2012 at 9:54 am

    “and thats why MA is a billionaire,cisse cost 9 million and your writing a blog that no one can be arsed to read through.”

    numptyandmuppet, Ashley is a billionaire because he knows how to take advantage of numpties and muppets, the kind of people who, in the corner of their minds really do beleive that he’s having a closing down sale, or that all those 50% and 70% reductions in his shops really are genuine. I write this blog as a hobby because I love Newcastle United and several thousand people read it every day. I don’t want to make a penny from it as I have no problems doing that elsewhere and fortunately, I don’t have to stoop to Ashley’s level to do so. :-)

  26. toonfannnn says:
    August 14, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    “Andy u jumped the gun there I never mentioned our current transfer policy”

    toonfannnn, Andy’s trying to use something known as a “straw man” argument.

    Rather than attacking a real argument, he’s built a “straw man” a false or exagerrated characterisation of the arguments he disagrees with which is easier to attack. It’s a deception.

  27. Toonfannn I completely agree about Debuchy, I’d love to see him play for us and I think he’s easily worth a more substantial bid. I just wonder how much of the facts we’re actually getting on that front. Maybe it is a simple case of Ashley not meeting their valuations, but from some a couple of interviews that Debuchy has given in France it feels like Lille simply don’t want let him go, and are wriggling out of any backroom off the record agreements they made with Carr and co. From what I can gather it seems like before the window opened he was set to come here for around £4mill, but then he played well at the euros and Hazard went to Chelsea so Lille seem to have changed their mind. Debuchy said himself that no one at Lille was honest with him over the summer. My point is that I’m not as annoyed at Ashley as I am with Garcia, though that doesn’t mean I’m right.

    I didn’t mean to jump the gun, there are good arguments on both sides. I just hate all those plastic fans who aren’t happy unless big names are coming through the door. I’m not accusing anyone here of that though.

  28. People say Debuchy will have no sell on value but i lille the £6.3m,he’s how old..26/27? just say we keep him for 3yr,thats not him over the hill or finished by a long way in my book.theres talk ov man utd been intrested in A.Cole,he’s not finished n will still cost way over £10m.the same could quite easily apply wiv Debuchy if we ever do manage to secure his services.most importantly tho,what has all this slaver done to Cabaye?the poor kid came out publicly asking MA n co to sign his pal.i hope that does’nt unsettle Cabaye now wiv no deal been done or unlikely to get done.the chemistry down the right hand side ov the pitch would ov been awesome n great to watch wiv Debuchy,Cabaye n Ben Arfa.they would ov terrorized teams wiv there pace,skill n trickery.
    Roll on saturday anyway HWTL

  29. Here we go again!!! No-one forces anyone to read this and I appreciate that everyone deserves a voice but if your too stupid to see you are being taken for a ride by Cashly, Feck-off!!

    Paying to much for a player, I agree is daft. Paying close to market value is surely differant!

    Having said all that I now realise that as I’ve never seen these names before, this is another stupid, childish attack from the anti-worky mob, trying a new approach!

    Can i again extend an invitation to you to visit Belfast and have a quite yarn down the Shankill Road with me and my fellow Toon fans over here?

    Your always welcome?!

  30. Andy says:
    August 14, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    “From what I can gather it seems like before the window opened he was set to come here for around £4mill, but then he played well at the euros and Hazard went to Chelsea so Lille seem to have changed their mind.”

    He was never set to come here for £4 million and his career didn’t start at the European Championships, I suspect that you’ve been reading Lee Ryder in the Chronic? He’s been dropping lots of incorrect stuff into his pieces about Lille going back on a previous agreement to sell him for £6 million but it is completely untrue, and the bid was actually €6 million (£4.7 million) anyway. He’s also been quoting bids made in euros as bids made in pounds to make them look like they are higher than really are, close to the sum which Lille actually wanted, even though they never wanted to sell the player in the first place. Even before the European Championships, he was worth far more than Newcastle were offering and I find it bizarre that you are annoyed with Rudi Garcia. If a team like Barcelona or Real Madrid were trying to unsettle Ben Arfa, Cisse or Cabaye, trying to make them cause trouble until Newcastle United were so sick of it they just gave up and let them go for a fraction of their true worth, how would you feel?

    The whole thing about Lille having found a “replacement” for Debuchy in Djibril Sidibé is also cobblers. It’s a bit like saying that Newcastle signed Gael Bigirimana as a replacement for Tiote, or Romain Amalfitano as a replacement for Hatem Ben Arfa. He was signed as a 19 year old youngster for a very small fee, but because he can play as a right sided full back, people, including the Tyneside media put two and two together and made five once again as it titillates fans and sells advertising.

  31. A club like Newcastle, which can never outspend the richest clubs, needs to spend smarter to have a chance at the top 4. You need to identify UNDERVALUED assets to stay ahead in this market. Arsenal have lately been able to stump up big fees for players by selling their best players to clubs with limitless funds. Newcastle have managed that only with Andy Carroll of late, hence the lack of funds to splash 11m on De Jong and 8m on Debuchy.

    Also, seeing claims that Debuchy will be worth 14m after a good season in the prem? Fullbacks are NEVER worth that much. Clichy went for 7m to Citeh, Enrique cost about the same. There’s no way that a 28 year old (after this season) FB who is great in attack and average defending would be worth more than 7m a year from now. He’s a first choice international only due to the Sagna injury. I think paying 8m for such a player is madness, a consistent transfer policy as espoused in the article above would bankrupt the club and NEVER allow us to progress, and that we should only buy Debuchy if he costs 5m MAX. We have leverage because the player wants to come here, USE IT or we lose our competitive advantage (competitive advantage = our superior knowledge of French/Dutch leagues, personal connections between our current players and those playing in France/Netherlands, and the positive reputation that we have in those countries). Chelsea or Man U could watch Debuchy on TV and pay 8m if they valued him that highly, while we can only beat them if we pay somewhere around half for the same talent. Otherwise, move on.

  32. Whats the point of a blog ???

    To promote discussion and generate further debate !

    So top marks to WT :)

  33. NUFC Blog is featured in this weeks “NUTS” magazine, apparently, in their 2012-13 Premier League preview. I did something about NUFC’s forthcoming season for them a while back.

  34. Free Scoring Smudge says:
    August 14, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    “Also, seeing claims that Debuchy will be worth 14m after a good season in the prem? Fullbacks are NEVER worth that much.”

    Free Scoring Smudge, how much were Paulo Maldini and Roberto Carlos worth? Ashley Cole when he was 25? Even Leighton Baines is worth over £15 million and he’s the same age as Debuchy.

  35. Free Scoring Smudge,

    Maicon? Dani Alves? Philip Lahm? Patrice Evra? Sergio Ramos? Fabio Coentrao? Eric Abidal? and so on…

    Have any of those full backs ever been worth over £14 million?

  36. jack72 says:
    August 14, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    “Exactly Worky.”

    Jack, I wouldn’t wish to presume or make a kind of “straw man” argument like the ones I was gannin’ on about before, but the next phase of these kinds of debates usually go something like:

    “So you’re comparing Debuchy with Paulo Maldini and Roberto Carlos now :lol:” etc etc… ;-)

  37. We got a tight owner. Whether you like it or not, it’s as black and white as that. We’ll make some good deals at good prices, but lose a few other options in the process.

    As long as the scouting Quality remains high tho, then “Carr’s Law” applies, that we’ll still be bringing in Quality players.

    If we seal Anita, and buy a striker* of some description, I’ll be happy with the window.

    (Obviously happier if we get a bundle of quality players, but maybe it’s a case of 1 season at a time).

    * Why not Jordan Rhodes?….
    “scored 40 goals for his club last season and eight goals for the Scotland Under-21s.”

  38. Milner-you think our defense is good? We need at least one CB (I’d prefer 2) and a fullback. Perch can’t cover for literally everyone in the squad with injuries, suspensions and ACON to consider.

    Jordan Rhodes would work fine for me. Again, though, I’d probably place the lowest priority on getting a forward. We absolutely must get another center half.

  39. Milner says:
    August 14, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    “* Why not Jordan Rhodes?….
    “scored 40 goals for his club last season and eight goals for the Scotland Under-21s.”

    Milner, I’m not saying you’re wrang about Jordan Rhodes at all, however you did forget to mention that it was 40 goals for the Udders in League One!

    One that I will be watching next season is La Liga’s highest scoring midfielder last season, Michu. He scored 17 goals for Rayo, and has been signed by for Swansea by the divine Michael Laudrup as a replacement for Sigurdsson. He was only £2 million.

  40. Workyticket

    Fine, under some conditions, a young, top-5 world fullback may be worth more than 15m.

    However, I disagree with many of your examples – Evra was bought for less than 5m, Baines is great and maybe Everton claim he is worth 15m but he won’t sell for that. Only a couple of the players that you mention were sold for 15m (Contrao and Alves). The current transfer market does not value fullbacks that highly, save maybe Alves.

    To recap: your objection to my response was technically correct but supported by a mixed bag of examples. Even if sometimes Fbs are worth 15m, you have failed to provide any support for why NUFC should pay up 8m for a 27 year old, decent fullback because the selling club or some website says that’s what he’s worth.

  41. tunyc,

    we got willo/saylor/colo/good to cover CB.

    And Santon, Raylor, Simmo, jonas, ferg, perch, tav and hopefully Anita to cover the rest.

    That’s not too bad, with anita.

    Strikers – Ba, Cisse, Shola.

    THAT’S thin, if we’re saying potentially 8 players covering RB/LB roles, then 3 players covering ST and CF….is about 5 players short.

    Maybe 4 strikers short if u include Sammy as an option.

  42. Jordan:

    On 11 March 2012, he was named League One Player of the Year at the Football League Awards.

    He also won the club’s Player of the Season, and Player’s Player of the Season award as well as finishing as both the clubs and leagues top scorer with 36 league goals during the regular season.

    45 appearances last season = 40 goals.

    worky, i’d like 2/3 players extra like this…for development, depth and competition.

  43. Free Scoring Smudge says:
    August 14, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    “you have failed to provide any support for why NUFC should pay up 8m for a 27 year old, decent fullback because the selling club or some website says that’s what he’s worth.”

    Fair enough, we don’t buy him then.

  44. Milner: Good is 19 years old and only has experience in the A-League, which is probably the equivalent of the third or fourth division. He’s not for this season. Even with him, though, you’ve got 7 players, tops, to cover 4 positions (with Perch also pivoting to midfield at times) through as many as 60-65 games.

    Think of it: over three matches in which Simpson and Perch started at CB last season we picked up 1 point total against Norwich, Swansea and WBA. That’s 8 points left on the table when 6 would have seen us in the group stage of the Champions League at the end of the season. THE GROUP STAGE!! If Ashley can’t see that improving our defense is worth it, he’s also a shitty gambler.

  45. We should pay 6.2M (not sure where 8M came from) because as someone above pointed out we seem to have no other targets that meet our standard, we need a player in his position and 6.2M is the asking price. It seems we’ve tried to haggle and the shopkeeper ain’t hearin’ it.

    Would you allow yourself to starve because the price of the only loaf of bread on sale is-according to you-overpriced? What sense does that make?!

  46. Free Scoring Smudge says:
    August 14, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    “you have failed to provide any support for why NUFC should pay up 8m for a 27 year old, decent fullback because the selling club or some website says that’s what he’s worth.”

    That doesn’t really make sense mate. I totally agree with you about that ‘Transfermarket’ site. I went on there to see what the bother about it was, there’s nothing ‘official’… I doubt it’s what all clubs use as a guide.

    But the part about what the selling club value a player at, is what you tend to have to pay. That’s their value in most cases, and the buyer usually has to abide by that. Of course, you can then try underhand tactics by speaking with their agent, or unsettling them to want to make the move away, thus putting their current club in a predicament.

    Of course instances like Stephen Fletcher at Wolves being valued at £15 million, is just madness. But Lille valuing a player of Debuchy’s quality at £6.3 million, I’d say that was a bargain. Hardly breaking the bank I think.

    We use these underhand tactics, or at least have used them. Pardew needs to stop using other clubs as examples, especially Man City or United. They are better than us, they’re title challengers. We need improvement, we need senior players in before September.

    “It’s valuation. Not just by the players themselves, but by the clubs and the agents. This is the big problem we have as managers and also chairmen in the Premier League. The valuation agents are putting on their player is far, far too much”

    Yet we put a £35 million price tag on Carroll, and as recently as last week, and throughout the summer Pardew said “it will take a lot of money to get one of our players”.

    Slightly hypercritical.

    Though I’d imagine those precise words are more from the big book of Llambias bullshit, which unfortunately Pardew has to spout at times.

  47. tunyc says:
    August 14, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    “We should pay 6.2M (not sure where 8M came from)”

    8 million euros tunyc.

    I’ve read many French sites and Dutch sites and they just put “8 million” or whatever. Of course, in France and the Netherlands that means euros, it goes without saying. However, so called “journalists” like Lee Ryder in the Chronic, who won’t be worrying the Pulitzer prize committee any time soon have just been putting these figure as pounds, causing much confusion.

    Reading some stories by him and one or two other NE hacks, it sometimes seems as if they do it deliberately to make Lille seem more unreasonable, and Newcastle seem more reasonable. It seems that way with this lie about Lille supposedly reneging on an earlier deal Ryder’s been pushing hard in his recent stories. He falsely claims that we agreed a £6 million deal with Lille and they have backed out of it. However, the bid was 6 million EUROS and Lille didn’t accept it.

    “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!” as Sir Walter once wrote.

  48. Jimbob says:
    August 14, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    “Though I’d imagine those precise words are more from the big book of Llambias bullshit, which unfortunately Pardew has to spout at times.”

    Jimbob, Pardew’s started using Llambias’s “big chunk o’ money” phrase recently. It’s creepy.

  49. Free scoring
    So are you in fact claiming that your evaluation of Debuchy is better than transfermarkt, the site that deals in evaluating players?
    And whats this nonsence about a 27 year old being too old, most footballers are just coming into their prime at that age.
    Are you discussing his future worth to the club down the road? or what he can do for the club over the next few years? in which case we are discussing two different subjects.
    You club finances, the rest of us his worth to the side as a player.
    Seems quite a few fans have been converted to the idea of the clubs finances as opposed to the playing side,
    “beancounting” as opposed to those of us who’s main interest is watching an entertaining game.
    It’s a strange phenomena, only becoming apparent since Ashley took over, well if thats what turns you on (buying players for less than their monetary evaluation) good luck with that.

  50. Chuck, get with the program! We aren’t fans of NUFC any more, that only leads to tears before bedtime. We’re fans of Sports Direct and Mike Ashley’s bank account nowadays, because they always do well.

    I’m just watching a thing on BBC’s “Newsnight” at the moment about Ashley’s favourite, zero hour contracts for employees.

  51. I just wanna warn any Glasgow Ranger fans out there, beware!
    You could end up in a lotta trouble for that 10% investment, this guy is zeroed in on your shirt deal.
    He jumped on that one real fast.

  52. chuck says:
    August 14, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    Sir Walter Scott, that is not the Raleigh guy !

    Sir Walter Raliegh – Superstar Elizabethan gadgie who nipped over to your side of the pond, nicked some tobacco and called the place he nicked it from from “Virginia.” He nicked some spuds as well while he was over there too and planted a few of them in Ireland.

    Sir Walter Scott – Superstar Scottish writer from the eighteenth century who wrote mega worldwide hits such as Ivanhoe, Rob Roy, The Lady of the Lake, Waverley, The Heart of Midlothian and so on…

  53. chuck says:
    August 14, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    “You could end up in a lotta trouble for that 10% investment, this guy is zeroed in on your shirt deal.”

    Oh aye! How many people buy their NUFC shirts from the club now Sports Direct are radically undercutting them and scalping the club for free advertising into the bargain?

    And as the club’s merchandising arm seems to have been Sports Directified, how much money from that goes to Sports Direct and how much goes to NUFC?

  54. Workey
    I understand he works on an incentive basis, bonus’s for the amount of merchandise moved ?
    Is that true as far as the club’s staff and players are concerned, also?

    Another thing, if whatshername the tea lady, has never served him a cuppa, how come she was’nt fired along with the rest of the staff let go (in order to save money for transfer fees)and develope the youth system.
    Could it be he’s really just a sentimental guy, that is missunderstood ?
    Oh wait a minute, the club has added an additional £25 fee (indirect of course) to season ticket holders and those others, who buy away ticket seats, that should take care of the tea lady.
    Nickel and dimes add up!

  55. Though considered a hero by England (The Armada )he is known elswhere as a pirate, especially in the Americas
    the former Spanish Colony’s, with a savage reputation of sacking looting and the other stuff.
    Apparently as recent as the last century, women would threaten missbehaving children with “El Drakey”.

  56. chuck says:
    August 14, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    I understand he works on an incentive basis, bonus’s for the amount of merchandise moved ?
    Is that true as far as the club’s staff and players are concerned, also?”

    As I’ve written on here before, he has two kinds of employees at SD. Firstly are the “Kapos” the supervisors who are on fairly normal employment contracts. They are the ones who incentivised by share bonuses as has been shared extensively with the media to make Ashley look like a model employer.

    Then there are the largely hidden scum who are on minimum wage, zero hour contracts who are flogged mercilessly by the Kapos mentioned above. They’re treated like shite and there are all kinds of stories about them being denied toilet breaks and stuff like that. They get no regular hours and divven’t knaa if they’ll be working from one day to the next. They just rely on text messages from the Kamp Kommandant every morning to find out if they’ll be earning a pittance that day.

  57. Chuck, the Pilgrim Fathers are considered as heroes over there, but they were a vile 17th century Taliban who were beyond the pale, that’s why we sent them over. Your fine tradition for religious nutters still remains :lol:

    We all used to do it, just look at the Iberians in South America, the Dutch in South Africa and so on. We sent all the biggest bastads out to the colonies to get them out the way.

    I won’t mention Ireland and set all that off again!

  58. Steve @ 58: that’s the crux of this negotiating strategy. It’s a game of chicken. And it works on the understanding that French (likewise Dutch) clubs have to sell their world class targets at some point because they can’t pay on the same scale as English, Spanish or Italian clubs. That being the case, they always have an eye out for the point of diminishing returns in terms of a player’s value. Debuchy *COULD* have a horrible campaign and lose his place in the team or, say, break his leg this season. Then what would Lille get? On the other hand, he could have a massive season and truly push his value into the Maldini-Carlos range. So we make our lowball bid and wait. Fine. But is that very responsible when we have five games in a couple weeks to start the season in a handful of days’ time? I don’t think so…

  59. the current regimes transfer policy has been proven to be excellent so if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

    non of us know what has been truly said in negotiations and why should we go back to just paying what clubs ask like the dark old days?

    plus the window isn’t shut yet so why not wait, negotiate and get who you want but only for what you want to pay?

    Leeds rangers pompy etc etc are a perfect reason not to just pay what clubs ask as regardless of TV deals and the like we don’t throw money around anymore and long may it continue

    didn’t luuk de jong not join us because he wanted guaranteed first team football anyway?

  60. I seem to recall him saying that he wanted champions’ league football… but I may be misremembering.

  61. De Jong said he wanted he wanted to join Borussia Moenchengladbach because he liked the coach, Lucien Favre, and felt that his rapid style of play was right for him. They had a good chat together and that made his mind up.

    Tripp, he did mention the fact that Borussia were in the Champions League too, and also that the Bundesliga was one of the best in leagues the world, but the main reason he gave was the coach as I recall.

  62. geordiedug says:
    August 15, 2012 at 2:16 am

    “negotiate and get who you want but only for what you want to pay?”

    Brilliant thinking Geordiedug! Why don’t we all just go around paying what we want for things. Next time I go to a restaurant, I’ll tell the waiter or waitress that I want Beluga caviar, lobster Thermidor and Krug champagne, then tell him or her that I’m only going to pay a fiver for it all because that’s all I think it’s worth. I’ll be a fat bastad in no time!

  63. About the Africa cup of nations. Senegal and Ivory coast are in the same qualifying group and only 1 team can qualify from a group. Because of this we can only lose Tiote or Ba + Cisse but not all 3 (assuming either of the teams qualify).

    Africa cup of nations will happen again this coming January / February but after this next one it wont be for another 2 years.

    From the wiki:
    In May 2010, it was announced that the tournament would be moved to odd-numbered years from 2013. This will mean the tournament will not take place in the same year as the World Cup. It also means there will be two tournaments within twelve months in January 2012.

  64. I don’t want to us to go back to paying over the odds but if it’s correct that Lille wanted £6.3 million for Debauchy and we refused to pay it then that seems incredibly stupid. We could have recovered around half that by selling Danny Simpson (if anyone would take him) but instead it seems like we might keep him and lose him for nothing at the end of the season… There would be no logic in that.

    If we do lose Simpson on a free at the end of the season we are probably going to have to pay more than the £3-4 million difference between how much we could get for him and how much Debauchy would cost… Again, where is the logic in that ?

    Lets say we don’t sign a couple of players and we don’t perform as well next season as in the season just gone…. Are our “big players” going to want to stick around or are they all going to throw their toys out the pram and ask to leave ? If they do we’d be back to square 1.

    Don’t want to be a pessimist but it’s obvious we need another 2-3 players if we are still going to be competing in the cup competitions beyond christmas.

  65. Chuck I think you’ve got Sir Walter Raleigh and Sir Francis Drake a little confused. What is it with you Americans, history and geography? :-)

    Paulosio, if it’s Senegal who go, we’ll still have Ameobi.

  66. Paulosio says:
    August 15, 2012 at 4:59 am

    “Lets say we don’t sign a couple of players and we don’t perform as well next season as in the season just gone…. Are our “big players” going to want to stick around or are they all going to throw their toys out the pram and ask to leave ? If they do we’d be back to square 1.”

    Sorry for sounding a bit like Eric Cantona but when the big sharks start circling, that is when the toys will be thrown overboard. It would be like karma if it happened.

  67. Workey
    Yep, afraid i did, Frankie Drake was into rape , looting and pillaging, whereas Walt Raleigh was more involved with the agracultural business, spuds and baccy.
    It’s not often i’m right, but wrong again.

  68. Simpson has stated numerous times he was happy enough at the club, but he like every other player just wanted a deal that reflects his value to the club.
    He has been underpaid for the length of his present contract and apparently been low balled ie; undervalued once more.
    IMO he’s a decent player, can we not offer him an acceptable deal?
    We need help accross the back four, strength in depth and are a couple of injuries from a panic situation where we may be forced to pay way over the top come the next window.
    This situation has been in place since the beggining of this window, we have the players identified and should have the situation in place by now , were it not for the
    cheap-ass intransigent attitude of Ashley.
    Who played the same brinkmanship game last summer, ending up with an over the top panic buy in Santon, who according to the grey gaffer, was’nt ready untill halfway through the season, go figure.
    Seems Anita would like to come, but wants guarrantees, Douglas and his agent are not convinced we are the right club for him and puhleez end the haggling with Lille and we could end up with the strengthened defence we will need for a tough upcoming schedule.
    But looks like a repeat of last summer, even bringing in the above mentioned players now, without time to integrate into the side, may result in a slow start and why do we have unfit players, when everyone should be raring to go, hey! i dont get the way this club is being run?

  69. geordiedug says:

    “the current regimes transfer policy has been proven to be excellent so if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”

    What transfer policy is that then GD ? Pay as little as you can get away with, alienate ourselves with the selling club and dont expect to do any business with them again ?

    “non of us know what has been truly said in negotiations and why should we go back to just paying what clubs ask like the dark old days?”

    Pretty sure WT wasn’t advocating that. Just a fair price for a decent player. Clubs we deal with dont want to sell their best players, just as we didnt want to sell AC (or did we ???). So if you want to take star players away from clubs whose very existence relies on them then dont expect them to come cheaply. The question is whether you’d do business with NUFC judged on our recent past performances of unsettling players, getting them to air their feelings in public, encouraging them to strike etc ? We didnt like it when Jose was doing it did we ?????

    “plus the window isn’t shut yet so why not wait, negotiate and get who you want but only for what you want to pay?”

    What sort of preparation is this for a new season with a European qualifier just around the corner ? If, as we are led to believe, our scouting team are the bees knees why arent we unearthing those players who want to join the club and at a price we want to pay ?

    “Leeds rangers pompy etc etc are a perfect reason not to just pay what clubs ask as regardless of TV deals and the like we don’t throw money around anymore and long may it continue”

    NUFC were also perfect examples of how not to buy a player in the past but IMO the only reason we cant afford to buy two £8-£10m players per season or four £5m ones is if the Fatman wants some more of his money back from last season’s profits !

  70. I have almost given up trying to fugure out transfer numbers. How can we get Anita and Debuchy for the price of one Joe Allen or one Stephen Fletcher?

    Joe Allen with one decent season for a mid-table team. Stephen Fletcher you would think would be going cheap as his club need money after relegation and I am sure he doesn’t want to play “on a rainy night in Scunthorpe”.

  71. worky ticket says

    Brilliant thinking Geordiedug! Why don’t we all just go around paying what we want for things. Next time I go to a restaurant, I’ll tell the waiter or waitress that I want Beluga caviar, lobster Thermidor and Krug champagne, then tell him or her that I’m only going to pay a fiver for it all because that’s all I think it’s worth. I’ll be a fat bastad in no time!

    probably one of the worst comparisons going that as i quite clearly didn’t mean it like that?

    when it comes to players the club have shown that not rushing in, negotiating fees, not being desperate and being prepared to walk away from a deal is the way forward? we have a budget and have a sensible wage structure at the club. From whats been said it looks like the club scout a player and from the info gained have our own valuation and price they will be willing to pay on certain targets so whats so bad with that? its got us cabaye, both dembas, hba and so on? the club have gone down the big fees and big wages route paying THAT BIT EXTRA with to many players (smith xisco viduka etc etc)for it to sting us in the arse every time.

    the fact your all worked up before the transfer window has even closed makes it even stranger as these deals might still come off? for 3 seasons now its been like this every window and look where we are?

    nobody in the league apart from the usual suspects is tearing up trees in the market yet so whats wrong with pards saying that? he obviously has his targets but is playing the kidoligy game or just blabbering away as what else is there to say about it?

  72. Geordiedug, seriously, go and look up up “false dilemma” or “Either/Or fallacy” as I just don’t have the time to keep repeating the same answer over and over again to people parroting same absurd fallacy that the only alternative to anything Mike Ashley does involves buying has been players, paying them ludicrous wages and sending the club into administration, or even liquidation. ;-)

  73. Liquidation you say!
    We all know that aint gonna happen.
    A failure to reach a spot higher in the league than last season, or for that matter simply 5th. again.
    Who know’s?
    We need help if we want to progress, we all have our views on who and where.
    The thing is , if you are competing in one of the toughest leagues around, that and Europe at the same time, injuries will happen.
    We need help!

  74. geordiedug says:
    August 15, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    “its got us cabaye, both dembas, hba and so on?”

    There were several different reasons why we got those player at a lesser price than you would usually expect to pay, geordiedug. We got Cabaye because someone within the club found out about a hidden release clause in his contract which around half of his true value. We got Demba Ba because of his knee, we got Cisse probably because Freiburg thought they were dead set for relegation. Of course, it’s true that we would have paid more if we had bought him earlier, in the Summer, however we may also have lost out, or it may be that if we had him earlier, it could have made the difference between us qualifying for the Champions League instead of the Europa League, which would have made up the difference several times over. Whilst these points about Cisse are all debatable, rather than facts, who’s to know? Finally of course, with Ben Arfa, the club took a chance on his temperament.

    I notice that you have omitted some examples such as Sylvain Marveaux. The club took a gamble on his groin but he has hardly been off the treatment table since we signed him, and his explosive style of play is the kind which is most likely to aggravate his recurrent problem. You also missed out on some examples where we truly missed out for the sake of paying THAT BIT EXTRA, like Victor Moses, who is now worth several times what we could have had him for and so on…

  75. @workyticket

    Well as it stands mate like it or not he is the only alternative we have until somebody else comes along! and as much as you try with the conspiracies and theory’s you cant argue the fact since relegation we have done very well both on and off the pitch and currently are in a pretty healthy position from the outside looking in which 99% of us are

    I’m also not that daft to think that all will stay pink and rosy though as Ashley is a twat and money is his god but only he alone knows what he plans do to with the club, either to regain his money back or make a few quid we will just have to wait and see

  76. @workyticket

    yes what you say about cisse is debatable but its a glass half empty way of looking at it as we will never know what might have happened had he been at the club from the beginning. we still achieved well over expectations and it doesn’t get much better than that for your second season back in the premiership.

    my point is being tight and doing your homework has worked very well for us so why change it? its frustrating as hell and i see the sense in just getting debucy on board and paying the extra 2 mil or whatever is the hold up, but a budget is set and i like it like that as for far to long we have been the ones being mugged and forking out huge fees and wages in the transfer market

    i still hold out for marveaux and i think everyone knew it was a big gamble but not every player is going to work out? ba could have quite easily ended up like this but hopefully we can get him fit this season but like obertan as well these are players that are worth a punt and if they don’t work out not much has been wasted as we go them in on sensible deals

  77. workyticket says:
    August 14, 2012 at 4:46 pm
    “toonfannnn, Andy’s trying to use something known as a “straw man” argument. Rather than attacking a real argument, he’s built a “straw man” a false or exagerrated characterisation of the arguments he disagrees with which is easier to attack. It’s a deception.”

    workyticket says:
    August 15, 2012 at 4:11 am
    “Brilliant thinking Geordiedug! Why don’t we all just go around paying what we want for things. Next time I go to a restaurant, I’ll tell the waiter or waitress that I want Beluga caviar, lobster Thermidor and Krug champagne, then tell him or her that I’m only going to pay a fiver for it all because that’s all I think it’s worth. I’ll be a fat bastad in no time!”

    Anyway, I think the point that people are making is that having been badly burned in the past, they’d rather we negotiate hard to get good players on the cheap and risk missing out on good players who’s clubs won’t budge on the price.
    Even if people put it down to blind luck (which I don’t), you’d have to admit we’ve been lucky quite a lot in the transfer market over the last 2 years. I think we should wait to see if our current approach continues to bear fruit before we advocate a change in our policy.

  78. Shorter John T: most people are short sighted and fail to spot the chances where by spending 2 today you can make 10 tomorrow.

    We dropped 8 points last season to Norwich, Swansea and WBA when we started an RB and a utility player at CB. Just 6 of those points we dropped would have seen us into the GROUP STAGE OF THE CL! All because we wouldn’t go out and get a top CB…

  79. I dunno Tunyc, you could also say it’s short sighted to feel pressured into buying today instead of waiting to see what will be available tomorrow.
    Re: the points thing, I don’t think we can really go back and blame results on certain things. We could just as easily have got those 6 points if 1) We’d hung on for a draw against Arsenal, 2) if the ref had sent Luiz off at SJP 3) if Ba had scored the penalty against Sunderland (or let Shola take it!) etc