The idiot’s guide to Toon Europa qualification

Posted on March 23rd, 2012 | 77 Comments |

Newcastle United's Europa League qualification chances.
How do we get there?
Recently there has been some discussion on this ‘blog as to how Premier League teams qualify for Europe, so I thought I’d set out the qualification rules here and then look at Newcastle United’s options.

First of all the rules:

– England is awarded 4 Champions League and 3 Europa League spots. A further Europa League spot is up for grabs if England places in the top 3 of UEFA’s ‘Fair Play’ league and, if so, that place then goes to the English team who tops the Fair Play League.

– The top 3 positions qualify for the group stage of the Champions League automatically and the team finishing 4th has to win a 2-leg play-off to get into the group stage.

– The 5th position qualifies for the Europa League.

– The winners of the League Cup qualify for the Europa League. If the winners of the League Cup also qualify in some other way (ie. by their league position or via the FA Cup), the next highest League finisher qualifies for the Europa League.

– The winners of the FA Cup qualify for the Europa League. If the winners of the FA Cup also qualify for a Champions League position the runners-up qualify instead. If the runner-up has already qualified too, the next highest League finisher qualifies for the Europa League.

There are also rules relating to defending champions of either the Champions League or the Europa League and these can affect who qualifies, but they’re irrelevant as far as this season is concerned because no English team is defending a European title.

For the purposes of simplicity, I’m going to assume the following in this article:

1. The top 4 will be as they are now (in any order). That means that Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs will be in the Champions League.

2. 5th, 6th and 7th will be contended between Liverpool, Chelsea and Newcastle.

Now, as to Newcastle’s situation, we will qualify for Europe if we finish 5th regardless of what happens in the FA Cup, so that’s a way to make certain of it. Liverpool have already qualified for Europe via the League Cup so if they finish 5th, the team finishing 6th will qualify for the Europa League too.

As to the FA Cup, the following teams are still in it (as of Friday 24rd March 2012): Spurs, Bolton, Sunderland, Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea. The semi-finals are Liverpool v Everton/Sunderland and Spurs/Bolton v Chelsea. That means the final can be any one of the following:

Liverpool v Spurs
Liverpool v Bolton
Liverpool v Chelsea
Everton v Spurs
Everton v Bolton
Everton v Chelsea
Sunderland v Spurs
Sunderland v Bolton
Sunderland v Chelsea

The way this works out is:

– we can get to Europe finishing 6th or 7th in the following circumstances:

1. The final is Liverpool v Chelsea or Liverpool v Spurs, regardless of who wins.
2. The final is Liverpool v Bolton and Liverpool win.
3. The final is Chelsea v Everton and Chelsea win.
4. The final is Chelsea v Sunderland and Chelsea win.

– in all other circumstances we must finish 5th OR finish 6th and be above Chelsea to qualify.

Or course if any other teams come into the reckoning for 5th-7th place finishes it gets more complicated and I can’t be bothered to work that out.

Two things. First, that’s correct to the best of my knowledge but I was wrong once back in 1976 and this could be a second occurrence of that rare event (if you spot any errors I’ll correct them). Second, I know this is a “why bother” article and contender for most boring post of 2012, so don’t bother telling me!

Edit: Amended for clarity.

NUFCBlog Author: Hugh de Payen I'm a baby-boomer of the punk rock persuasion, currently exiled in Somerset for crimes committed in a previous life where locals keep trying to poison me with something called 'scrumpy'. Hates sprouts, coat-hangers, Cilla Black, ornaments, Steven Seagull movies and 50 Cent (he's not worth 10). Hugh de Payen has written 634 articles on this blog.

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77 Responses

  1. So what your trying to say is if we finish 12th we qualify for the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup :)

  2. Very roughly:

    We want a big team to win the FA Cup who will either be above us in the top five if we don’t make it or have won the League Cup already (Liverpool), none of this rooting for the underdog rubbish.

  3. You’ve got that wrong!

    You say – “The winners of the FA Cup qualify for the Europa League. If the winners of the FA Cup also qualify for a Champions League position the runners-up qualify instead. If the runner-up has already qualified too, the next highest League finisher qualifies for the Europa League.”

    But then put:

    2. The final is Liverpool v Bolton and Liverpool win.
    3. The final is Chelsea v Everton and Chelsea win.

    Thats not the case.

    Basically we need to finish 5th, unless Liverpool get through to the final against Chelsea or Spurs, then we can finish 6th (or 7th behind liverpool).

  4. If chelsea beat sunderland in the final then dont sunderland get into europe? and I know none of us want that. But doesn’t the same count for if Liverpool beat Bolton?
    The runner up of the FA cup is given preference to the next highest league finisher, as you say. So if the FA cup final isn’t Liverpool vs Chelsea or Liverpool vs Spurs then we need to finish 5th or 6th or 7th since they will all have europe qualification through the cup guaranteed (and for spurs they will be in champs league so that trumps europa). If any of the ‘lower’ teams reach the final then we cant finish 7th and must finish higher to qualify.

  5. “There are also rules relating to defending champions of either the Champions League or the Europa League and these can affect who qualifies, but they’re irrelevant as far as this season is concerned because no English team is defending a European title.”

    This is incorrect. If Chelsea goes on to win the UCL and finish the EPL below Newcastle, things change a little bit more. Because UEFA gives English teams just 3+1 places to next seasons UCL, Chelsea’s UCL-title would guarantee them one place. Then the 1st an 2nd of EPL would get the other two spots. Third of EPL woul qualify and 4th goes to Europa League. Then the 5th of EPL qualifies ONLY if Bolton, Everton and Sunderland don not play in the FA-cup final.

  6. Worky, more of less!

    I had to permutate it all and then extrapolate after overcoming some initial confusion about what happens with FA Cup runners-up (apparently they only qualify if they lose to a Champions League qualifying team, which in our example can only be Spurs).

  7. KapylanHarakka has got that right, because unless thr FA cup is against two of the top teams, there is only one spot for Europa league in the league and that would go to 4th..

    so it is possible we can finish 5th and not get into Europe, but lets face it, Chelsea arent going to win the CL.

  8. Actually, no, you’re right. If Chelsea win the UCL they’d take the 4th UCL place from whoever gets that and whoever’s 4th would be in the Europa and everything would shift down, making our job harder.

    Let’s pretend that won’t happen!

  9. To put the whole thing as simple as possible, we can finish 5th, or 6th (or 7th behind Liverpool) if the FA cup final is Tottenham/Chelsea vs Liverpool.

  10. Enough already !
    My head is spinning, i did have a vauge idea of how it works, now i’m totally confused.

  11. Is rather simple to understand.

    5th Position gets europa. Understand that already?

    So can 6th-7th position get europa? Yes? But only if the following happens.

    FA CUP FINAL. The finalists MUST BE Any of the both,which includes chelsea,spurs,liverpool.

    But there is a problem. We may miss out,and the mackems Might go europa instead,if they make it to final.

  12. To change the subject.
    According to rumor, the club are making a serious attempt to land, an also rumored last year target, Peiters.
    With talk of also bringing in (big Duggy) Douglas, a dual national CD.
    With Peiters we have a bit of versatility as he can fill either the LB or CD roles.
    That would give us Santon who can cover both FB positions, Saylor, Colo and Douglas,all CD’s., then Simpson a RB.and not to forget our super sub Perch.
    A fairly decent set of defenders with some versatility, not that deep , but with more quality.

    From rumor, there’s also an expectation of an outgoing exodus, replacing those estimated to be, not up to par or have not met the clubs expectations.

    Nowt wrong with that, every side should expect to improve it’s squad, whenever possible.

    Question arises, along with the deadwood, it’s rumored we may loose both Ba and Tiote.
    At least there’s more talk concerning their exit than, any others.
    Sure both deny they want to leave, but you can bet your ass, if offered the right amounts for both, they would both be happy to do a Carroll-Enrique number.

    Twenty mill apiece, or close,would cause either Ashley or Llambias to jump at it.
    And if one looks at it in an unpassionate way, would be an excellent deal.
    The funds generated could finance a number of decent replacements, resulting in a more balanced side.
    Look the suggested amount is not neccessary what we will get, but it’s all perception innit!

    Thing is, we know Ba has a suspect knee and could blow anytime, whereas Tiote has a way to go before he can do what Essian has done over the years.
    He being a one dimentional player a sweeper who plays only a defensive role, which is a luxury on any side.
    Except a Pardew side, that is, where everyone is expected to defend.
    Have to say some of the other players we have been linked with, are for the most part quality, that is except some of the youngsters who though prospects are not yey the proverbial, finished products.
    Should be an interesting summer.

  13. on Ba…..

    over the last two or three games since he came back from ACN he has been slow and seems to struggle on the ball.

    he doesnt have the same pace as he did in the first part of the season and he seems to be slowing down.

    maybe this is his knee stiffening or maybe it is just fatigue have played more games than most due to his ACN.

    i think we need to take heed of what we could lose if things go wrong but take notice game by game.

    and on the uerope qualification.

    we wont qualify at all if any team who hasnt already qualified for europe makes the final. the runners up in the FA cup qualify if the winners have already qualified.

    thats the whole Toon in Europe agenda.
    we need a spurs/chelsea/liverpool final. the runners up spot would go to a team with the next highest league position who havent already qualified for europe..

    at the moment that would be us in 6th or 7th providing liverpool and chelsea finish above us.

    its as simple as that

  14. We get into the Europa League in the following scenarios:

    -We finish 5th.

    -We finish 6th and LFC finish 5th.

    -We finish 6th, CFC or Spurs finish 5th after having won the FA cup v. Spurs, CFC or LFC.

    -We finish 7th, CFC or Spurs finish 5th after winning FA Cup v. CFC, Spurs or LFC AND LFC finishes 6th.

    (This all assumes CFC don’t win the CL, which I don’t think will happen but if it does all bets are off.)

    I’m pretty sure we don’t qualify in any other scenario. As pointed out by others, we can only qualify via 7th if both teams in the FA Cup final are already in Europe and LFC finish 6th. Otherwise, the FA Cup spot devolves to the runner up, whether Bolton, SAFC or EFC.

    If you assume LFC will finish below us (which I think is reasonable) then the second and fourth scenarios above are eliminated. So we likely need to finish 6th or better.

    The real kick in the teeth would be if LFC finish 7th, winning the FA Cup against Bolton and we finish 6th. That would see us out of Europe and two clubs below us in…

  15. Aye Stephen, but can you work out how the Republic of San Marino, 24 square miles and the same population as Durham City, can have a team in the Champion’s League, and potentially, two in the Europa league?

    And if Tyneside declared itself to be a republic, could we have the same?

  16. @ tunyc…hows this possible? I havent considered it.

    ‘The real kick in the teeth would be if LFC finish 7th, winning the FA Cup against Bolton and we finish 6th. That would see us out of Europe and two clubs below us in’

  17. worky tyneside has always been a republic we just haven’t officially declared it yet. but every one knows.

    why do you think we get on so well with the Scottish and Irish? we hate the English just as much.

    but for that to happen, we would need to break away from the premier league and have our own system.

    but if you look at san marino they will have to enter at an early qualifying round, they wont be guaranteed a spot in the group stages, so the likelihood of them actually getting far are slim to none.

    tooneye it is possible if sunderland, everton or bolton make the final. any of those teams win we are out of europe, if they get to the final we are out of europe.

    why????? because we only have a chance to enter europe if the FA cup final is contested by two team teams who have already qualified for europe, (we would take the FA cup runner up spot) if a team who hasnt already qualified for europe get into the final (sunderland, everton or bolton) they would get the spot instead of us.

    its simple

  18. What worky said. The key is the FA Cup winner’s spot devolving to the runner up rather than down the table.

    Actually, LFC can’t play EFC or SAFC in the FAC final, so only an LFC v Bolton final would create this scenario. It actually wouldn’t matter who wins.

  19. Stephen C says:
    March 23, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    “what do you think the chances of us qualifying through the fair play league are?”

    We’re as dirty as Stoke.

  20. worky have you checked the calculation links?

    its more than just red and yellow cards.

    there are points for playing style as well.

    taking goal kicks quickly when in a winning position gains points, trying to score more goals when in a winning position.

    playing attacking football, have attacking tactics not defending ones etc etc all add up.

    so if we played an attacking style of football like Swansea we might get away with a few red and yellow cards.

    but it just goes to show how defensive stoke play since they are at the bottom of the league and it just goes to show how close we are to them in our style and tactical nous.

  21. Stephen C says:
    March 23, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    “i know this might be a bit much for you lot to stretch the imagination but do you think any of these are possible?”

    “Best case scenario – we can still win the title and the mackems can still finish bottom.”

    “Worst case scenario – we can still finish bottom and the mackems can still get into the Champions League.”


  22. Anyone see the article mentioning Pardew is being considered for the Engerland job ?
    Along with Arry and Hodgson.
    Thats as a result of they being the only Englishman at present managing in the EPL.
    Aint that some sad state of affairs.
    Could we actually end up without a single English manager in the league ?
    Seems the majority are Glaswegians, whats that about ?

  23. i might put in for toon manager if we win the league worky.

    ill probably be able to perform more miracles.

  24. Whats the general cocensus, regarding the possible entry of both Rangers & Celtic, via league one.
    I know if i were part of either ownership i would’nt hesitate.
    Two clubs with history (not always poitive)and enormous fan support and large stadiums, if they continue in a pennyless moribund SPL they will wither and die.
    Unless someone gives them an enormous tv contract.
    Which there’s little or no chance of happening.
    Hell even if it took five years for them to progress to the PL, they have a future.
    Would’nt it be great to have them playing at
    St.James’Park, and just think of the friendly banter that could take place.
    Of course the Northumberland Constabulary, may have a different take on things.

  25. tunyc, the FA Cup runners-up spot only goes to them if they lost to a team in the Champions League (ie. Spurs) not, for example, to a team that’s in Europe via the League Cup (such as Liverpool).

  26. There could be an enormous economic advantage in having both sides visit.
    Gregs and Chinatown, for a start, then there’s the off licenses, the bars, rail and road transport, car parks, Glaziers (to replace the broken windows, insurance agencies, (there would probably be a rush by various businesses to further insure their property)
    Police overtime, hey the opportunities are endless.
    I urge all Geordies who want to see progress, to vote to include these wonderfull clubs in the English, leagues.

  27. chuck it was muted last week that Celtic were seriously considering joining league one if Rangers folded.

    rangers folding looks unlikely i think too many people are interested. but i think it all depends on what happens with the TicketUs court case.

    i was at the Rangers away friendly a few season back and there wasnt any trouble, pubs were filled with both fans and the talk was the Geordies get on well with the rangers fans, but not the Celtic. apparently every time Centic have been in Newcastle they have wrecked the place.

    Alan Shearers Testimonial was no exception, apprently they caused thousands of pounds were of damage.

    so i think the Police and the FA might be reluctant to let Celtic anywhere near English landmarks.

    can any one remember what happened when the Scottish invaded London when they were knocked out of the champions league?

    personaly i think we are years away from any scottish club entering the league, but the addition to the last 16 of each league cup teams from each home country has already been muted, but like everything else the week FA dont seem to want to take the chance on any embarrassing bad behavior.

    her indoors with the nipple on and the arsenal strip wouldnt not be amused.

  28. You guys still trying to figure all the various permutations in regard to european football.
    Listen it’s been done to death and still no one understands.
    Sorry i asked the question in the previous blog, can we put it to bed , as it’s becoming very boring.

  29. Stephen C
    Oh yeah ?
    Tell that to the Greg corp., the Chinese food vendors, the Glazers and police force (who love to riot)not to mention, the R/R. people, etc
    As for violence, ah! just handbags and have Celtic not earned a good reputation when travelling in europe, as opposed to Rangers who have caused trouble wherever they go.
    I recall at Giant’s stadium a few years back, where they sang sectarian songs, both on the busses to the game and in the stadium, attempting to intimidate the Spanish opposition.
    Fortunately no one understood a word they were saying and just passed it off as some primative ritual.
    Much to the Ranger fans chagrin.
    But people can change Stevie !

  30. Stephen C says:
    March 23, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    “chuck it was muted last week that Celtic were seriously considering joining league one if Rangers folded.”

    So which team would have to step aside and lose the hard earned right to promotion to let them in? Let them start at the very bottom like everyone else or **** off. Anything else would make a travesty of competitive football and set a dangerous precedent.

    On the subject of both Celtic and Rangers joining, who wants hundreds of years of religious bigotry infecting the football league anyway?

  31. I would love it, just love it if Celtic joined the English league!

    Stephen – Rangers smashed up the Town when we played them in the Fairs Cup. They were pissing out of bus windows and didn’t care who it landed on – women shoppers, kids etc they also smashed a gate and piled into the ground with no tickets.

    I say all this just to balance the thread a bit!

  32. ,
    It’s seventy five degrees Fht. almost eighty yesterday.
    With not a single flake of snow being seen this year..
    What? global warning you say ?
    Time for an a cold Amstel or two and some lunch.
    Think we stretched this one as far as expected.

  33. Stevie
    Do i detect a bit of anti Scotish bigotry on your part ?
    As for starting from the bottom, league one is the bottom, more or less.
    Fact is you would’nt probably see either oe here for the first four or five years, but if the start at the very bottom, they will be @ Gatesheed in a few weeks, think aboorit.
    And Steve, hope you are not taking any of this seriously, just tounge in cheek stuff.

  34. I did once get a £10 fine for urinating in a public place when I was 18, although it was anything but ‘public’. It was behind a wall in a field. I argued my case on the basis that I was pissed, desperate for a wee and the public toilets were locked (which they were), but the fascist magistrate – who used to teach me at school incidentally – said I should have gone before leaving the pub. “I did. But my bladder is tiny,” pleaded I in mitigation. It fell on deaf ears though.

    This gave me a deep mistrust of the justice system, snapped my mind and turned me into an anarchist.

  35. lunch?

    at 6:42pm?

    where you at chuck?

    and i completely understand the permutations of Europe for Newcastle united.

    Hugh do you think you could write “A Chucks Guide to Europe”

    the “Idiots Guide” wasn’t quite good enough.

    UNTD111 i understand there was a bit of bother, not to mention a pitch invasion i do believe.

    but on more recent meetings there hasn’t been a squeak from Rangers fans. i enjoyed every minute of my day in Glasgow so many people mingling with each other was great. ive never seen so much interaction between two sets of fans like i did that day.

    but and i say but ive always been a celtic fan myself so personally i would rather see Celtic than Rangers.

    the only option i could see to test the interaction would be adding the last 16 teams from each league cup to one and see what happens.

    i know it was mentioned a while back with northern Ireland and wales all interested.

  36. Stephen C says:
    March 23, 2012 at 6:58 pm


    at 6:42pm?

    where you at chuck?”

    Chuck’s in New York, Stephen. I think 6.42pm is 2.42pm with one hour time offset, or 1.42pm otherwise.

  37. chuck it was worky who commented about starting at the bottom.

    i have no problems with the scottish.

    Hugh i have even less faith than you,
    i dont trust the justice system when sons and daughters cant be trusted to behave and parents feel the need to help them out no matter what job they do..

    first had experience of that type of behavior small villages and towns are brim full of hypocrisy and hierarchy

  38. Stephen C says:
    March 23, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    “chuck it was worky who commented about starting at the bottom.”

    League One isn’t the bottom Stephen. League one is level three, the bottom is below level eight, Isthmian leagues and so on. Let them start there if they really want to be in the English League so much. As I wrote previously, it would be unfair if they deprived another team of rightful promotion, and any other way would probably bugger up the whole league system and create a dangerous precedent.

  39. Stephen C says: “first had experience of that type of behavior small villages and towns are brim full of hypocrisy and hierarchy”

    You should try some of the villages in deepest, darkest Somerset where I live. They have all sorts of strange rituals involving sheep. Sometimes I feel a bit like Edward Woodwardwoodwood in The Wicker Man.

  40. WORKEY
    Woops sorry Steve, it was wor Workey i was replying too.
    Ermm, how does that work, is it like the flue bug, people get infected with hundreds of years of religeous bigotry by going to a football game?
    C’mon my man, people have already been infected with religious bigotry in the UK, even celebrate it each November fifth, for hundreds of years.
    Had you grown up as a Muslim, Jew or a Catholic you would certainly be aware of it.

    As for who would step aside for them, ermm, Gatesheed or some other no-where side that should,nt be even playing proffessional football, because there no hope of them progressing beyond where they already are.
    Thats just a strawman argument.

    Look it would’nt bother me if either one went to the wall, which by your argument seems to be what you may be condemmning them to.
    But we are talking about two once giant sides in the UK, who’s only reason for a possible bankrupcy is because they dont have a lucrative tv contract like EPL sides.
    And for that matter, possibly you should be looking at the difference between the incomes of the English lower divisions and the huge amounts being skimmed from the top by the EPL.
    Thats something to get angry about and is a reality.
    When talking about the old firm sides we are talking
    Purely speculation.
    And i have no objection to either side, entering through the first division and working their way up.
    Look if what you say about those sides, whether they and their fans are bigots, hey so are a lot of EPL sides.
    Otherwise their would,nt be a kick out racism organization.
    Plus the leagues have enough laws in place to eject both sides, if they and their fans are found guilty of any of the laws governing their membership.

  41. Hey am gannin this time, ney mere arguments, i stretched this blog too long a’ready, later !

  42. chuck

    the way i see it the only reason why Rangers are facing Bankruptcy and liquidation is solely down to a dishonest man, who bought a football club for £1 and backed it with future season ticket sales.

    no checks were made on his credibility and he wouldn’t have passed the fit and proper test we have in the FA.

    he was banned from running a company and blocked every attempt by the Scottish Fa to find any details on him or how cash was being spent.

    not to mention £9 million worth of missing cash.

  43. hugh i know how you feel.

    my village is even worse. imagine the feeling of witnessing so much bad behavior and being the only one out of 2000 people actually wanting to do something about it?

    imagine your own family not caring and imagine your own family taking you on holiday to the place where “the Whickerman” was actually filmed, up in Dumphries and Galoway.

    now that tops the lot.

  44. Coming in very late on this thread, maybe because I’m taking lunch another three hours after Chuck, but anyway… the best way we will qualify for Europe is to win our games and then we can sod the permutations.

  45. where is chuck?

    what part of the world? forgive me for asking as im a relative newcomer to this blog.

    i just love the interactions between us Geordies from the four corners of the world.

    and more to the point does TUNYC want this strawberry syrup or not?

  46. Stephen C says:
    March 23, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    “where is chuck?

    what part of the world? forgive me for asking as im a relative newcomer to this blog.”

    I’ve already answered that at 51 Stephen. He’s in New York and 4-5 hours behind us, I think it may be four at the moment due to seasonal time offset?

    Paul from Hollywood, I’m sorry I didn’t answer your question the other week, you seem to ask questions which require full essays in response though.

  47. well i wouldn’t lose any sleep over it worky.

    i didnt see your comment on 51.

    but then we do lose sleep this weekend dont we?

  48. workyticket says:

    “Paul from Hollywood, I’m sorry I didn’t answer your question the other week, you seem to ask questions which require full essays in response though.”

    Well, only from you Worky. I like to give you the occasional mental workout, just to keep the IQ up! However, I do find you a very edifying fount of knowledge at the same time.

  49. chuck man,

    Nov 5th is about blowing up parliament mate, yes i know it was cathoholics trying to, but it’s still got nada to do with religion dude.
    The scots hate the english, Geordies aren’t necessarily english & the english barely care about the scottish.
    If scots teams wanna join in the english league/s, they should, as worky said earlier, start at the very bottom, level 9 or whatever it is, could be lower.

    The only reason the welsh clubs are allowed is because it’s still actually part of england, not a true country in it’s own right.

  50. Stephen C

    Your ‘best case’ scenario is simply ridiculous and stretches credibility to the limits. You seriously think QPR can finish 7th?

  51. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    March 23, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    The scots hate the english, Geordies aren’t necessarily english

    never a true word said so sweetly.

    Nice lunch and a few Amstels later.
    Actually the best description of Geordies i have heard is, England does’nt want them and Scotland wont have them,in minature, a kind of Berwick, you might say.

    I dont think it’s a case of anyone hating anyone else, how can you hate people you dont even know, think it’s more about respect.

    What i mean is there is just as much prejudice in England as in Scotland, whether it is based on religion, or racial.
    And to want to ban two big Scotish sides, with one actually volunteering to start from the lowest level of the four divisions, is nothing less than predjudice.

    As for “penny for the guy” and the symbolic burning of that guy, in fact Guy Fawkes, a catholic who wanted the restoration of the monarchy is no doubt, part of religious predjudice practised over centuries.
    Though few of those involved actually understand anything about it, just a mindless event that takes place every year on Nov. 5th.

    “The only reason the Welsh clubs are allowed in is because it’s still actually part of England, not a true country in it’s own right”…….

    I’m sure you mde a lot of friends in Wales following that statement.

    As for this Neo-Geordieanism, perhaps with the eventual devolution of Scotland, possibly followed by Wales then
    Northumbria can declare it’s independance and we will have the “The United Kingdom of England and Norn Iron”.
    On the other hand Berwick and the other border town on the west coast Gretna, both play in the Scotish divisions due to economic circumstances,, without any objections from anyone.
    Could you not be as generous to the Scot’s as they are to you and let the two Scotish clubs enjoy membership in the english leagues ?
    After all, both are based on the same reason, economics and the Scots are willing to start from the lowest division and hopefully work their way to the EPL, not a lot to ask IMO.
    Actually, i recall a few years back their was talk about Wimbeldon moving to Dublin, without much dissent and Clint regardless of your starement about Wales, the precident has been set in this regard.

  53. CLINT
    The Geordies are not English ?
    Depends on how you describe English.
    If you mean are they for the most part Angels and Saxes, from northern Holland(Friesians)and what is now Germany,then no.
    When the then Saxon King Harold fought the battle of Stamford Bridge (no not at chelsea) but in Yorkshire, a few days prior to being defeated at battle in Sussex, by the Normans.
    At that time a good many of the residents of what is Tyneside were settlers from Norway, who were in fact undecided as to who they they should support the Norwegian Harald or the then Saxon king Harold.
    And if you look at common names from the area, you will find the are for the most part, Anderson,Henderson, Armstrong,Robson, and many other scandanavian names.
    Not only that, the local dialect reflects it’s origins,
    The term, “ganning hyem” is the same in most teutonic languages as are other terms, plus the sing song pronunciation, reflects that of most scandanavian languages.
    However i would, rather than go it alone, advocate a political joining or re-alignment with Norway, possibly the worlds wealthiest country.

  54. Clint
    You were right , well worth watching.
    Talking bout the Clough interview, he certainly hit the nail on the head.

  55. Stephen C, I think I saw that TUNYC was keen on the strawberry syrup in another thread.

  56. Scots & Welsh teams in the English Football Association?
    Sorry rest of the world – there is no “English” Football Association
    it is THE Football Association !
    much to the ongoing disgust of Sep Blatter and his bloated band of crooks
    as such THE Football Association refused to acknowledge FIFA or UEFA or sanction entry to any of their competitions (incl World Cup & European Cup) for nearly 50 years

    So technicaly any team can join the FA
    when the SFA broke away it arranged all its games (including cup ties & the final) to be played on the same day (and time) as English ones so no club could be in both associations

    As far as I can see all Rangers & Celtic have to do is apply and they will be accepted

  57. chuck,

    i think you’ll find mate, that Geordies speak the most anglo-saxon, about 80%, & that doon sooth it’s about 30%. It’s also a fallacy that Geordies are of scandinavian extraction, they are mostly anglo/saxon. A massive dna test was done recently & that turned to be the case.
    Lot’s were in fact celtic in origin, as for scandy names, most of those you put forward are Reiver names (border pirates) nixon & armstrong being well known ones, along with Robson, Milburn, Charlton etc.

    Nov 5th is now an anti-government statement, regardless of your attitude towards it.
    Religon is dead in britain, they are currently trying to regenerate it mind.

  58. Clint & Chuck – ever heared shakespeare (wor Billy) in broad geordie?
    Its closer to the elizabethan tongue he wrote in than the insipid BBC you usualy hear
    -try it yersel – “Once more into the breach dear fiends or choke up the breach with our english dead!” – fantastic !

    or “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, bonny lass, like” -melts any maiden’s heart !

  59. Clint
    The Norwegian settlements took place centurys before the term border reiver came into effect.
    As for DNA, there is really no distinction between Scandanavians and the Angels and Saxes, both being teutonic in origin, or Germanic,
    The only difference in Scandanavia are the Sammi people, the Laps, who along with the Finns are of Asian descent.
    You are right however in mentioning, there’s a detectable DNA difference between those of Celtic origin and those of Germanic origon.
    Strangely enough, the results of a study done in the UK a few years back, showed that contrary to common belief, most of the population in fact were proven to have Celtic DNA !
    As for speaking Anglo-Saxon, there’s no such language, in fact the term itself was,nt invented untill a coupla centuries ago.
    Any language or dialect would be from those who lived in the area.
    Which in 1066 was predominantly Norsk, which itself is a teutonic language not unlike German, they (the Scandanavians) having migrated there from east of the Rhine.
    The Dutch are however a mixture of both, the result of a push by the Germanic races west of the Rhine, following the Roman withdrawl of the area known to them as Gaul.

  60. WORKEY
    As you very well know, the so called English language has been and continues to be a living growing thing.
    As a matter of fact if you were to take a thirty mile radius of the city of Newcastle, you would hear numerous variations of the local dialect.
    And with an acute ear could almost locate whithin a small radius where most people lived.
    I’m sure that has changed over the years, with the advent of TV and the fact most people no longer live their lives in one small area.
    Also with so many US based tv shows, American English (is that an oxymoron?)has mad inroads into the local speech and even on these blogs we hear (read) statements like, ball park figure, step up to the plate, etc.
    Plus i had noticed, that especially in the Irish Republic, American pronunciations were more commonplace than any English speaking country i have visited.
    Of course, the best English (purest) is spoken by those same Scandinavians we were discussign earlier.
    Which results in Geordies still speaking a dialect derived from Scandanavian and Scandanavians speaking a pure form of English as a second language.
    Wonder what they think (Scandanavian tourists) on encountering the geordie dialects ?

  61. chuck,
    as you correctly mentioned earlier, the english language stems from Freisland, northern Nederlands.

    Most scandinavians i know recognise Geordie words like Hyem, Bairn, gan, lad, lass
    & others as ‘old Swedish, Danish, finnish, Norwegian.